DangerousTalk

Texas Teacher suspended for being “Liberal” and an “atheist”

Written by: Brad Watkins on Feb 2, 2009 4:03 PM EST

For the past few days I have been in contact with Mr. Richard Mullens a school teacher in Brookeland Tx. Brookeland Tx, is an incredibly “Conservative” area of Texas, and only 16 miles up the road from Jasper Tx. the scene of several incidents of racial violence and murder. Mullens has been the victim of a smear campaign and a slew of unethical practices, based solely on his religious and political beliefs. I have received numerous calls today from area parents, and concerned local residents who feel that Mr. Mullens is a good teacher, who has encouraged and inspired his students to think critically, and independently and is innocent of all charges, both spoken and written. In fact the administration of Brookeland High School made attempts to urge students to sign a list of alleged chargers against Mr. Mullens of which over 100 students out of 103 refused to sign.The students attempted to present to the Board of education a petition in support of Mr. Mullens and refuting any charges of inappropriate language made against him. The Principal of Brookeland High School, not only refused to take this petition to the board but forbade the students from such actions. Mr. Mullins is being railroaded by a School board of which all of those who support his removal are members of the same church. A church who’s pastor has openly called for there to be only Christian teachers in the Brookeland school district. Currently the Mid-South Peace and Justice Center is in contact with several local and national civil rights organizations in Texas, who will be contacting Mr. Mullens, investigating this situation and offering their support. But if anyone out there knows any other resource that can be brought in to stop this injustice, I ask you please contact us, and forward this out to them. at Brad@midsouthpeace.org The following is a statement of events from Mr. Mullens, some names and details were redacted by me.

I, Richard Mullens, have been a teacher in the state of Texas since 1971. I have never received a negative comment, complaint, or write-up during this period of time. On the contrary, I have received recognition for my teaching and the test scores of my students. No matter what district I’ve taught in, my students have always excelled in the state mandated tests. I currently teach in Brookeland, TX, a small rural district about 16 miles north of Jasper, TX. I’ve taught at Brookeland for the past 6 years. I’ve been in my current position as US history, government, and economics teacher for 3 years.

These past 2 years have been an exciting time for me as a history and government teacher. My classes have followed the primary and election campaigns. My senior class last year, with the aid of the superintendent Lana Comeaux, was able to travel to Beaumont, TX to see Bill Clinton make a stump speech on behalf of his wife Hillary Clinton. In class we followed the primary campaign using Newsweek magazine and Junior Scholastic magazine to keep us informed about the issues. We had passionate debates about the issues and the candidates. It was obvious to my class that I supported Barack Obama. I allowed all students to express their opinions, as long as they did not include racial slurs or non-factual information. On occasion, I had to correct misinformation that was expressed by students. For example, that Barack Obama was un-American, that he did not say the pledge, and that he was a terrorist. After Barack Obama’s election, I was looking forward to being able to share the inauguration with my students by letting them watch it on TV in my classroom. But instead, I found myself at home suspended from my job.

On November 7th, at a basketball game that was supposed to be our homecoming scrimmage, I sat at the scores table as a coach with Lana Comeaux, the superintendent. I was not allowed to coach because we would be in violation of UIL rules. Lana Comeaux at that time told me she was under pressure from the school board and they were looking for her to resign. She said that my name was also on the list of people that the board wanted to resign or fire. I asked why, and she said that a school board member had expressed to her that he believed I was an atheist and a liberal. She asked me if I was an atheist and I refused to answer the question. I said, “I won’t play this game. I didn’t know you had to take a religious test to be a teacher in the state of Texas.” Nothing was said after that point, although there was a lot of tension among the other coaches about whether they would be able to keep their jobs or not, because she also told them that many of them were on the list.

Then on January 7th, a student in my classroom in second period left my class, went to the Principal’s office, and told him that there was an inappropriate discussion in my classroom. I was informed by the principal, Richard Turner, that I needed to talk to her mother because she was very upset. Her mother came to class on January 7th, came to the school January 7th, very upset. She made some threats to me in the hallway. And then on January 8th, Mr. Turner informed me that I needed to call the parent, Mrs. Lowe. On January 9th, I had Vicki Smith, the school secretary, call “REDACTED” on my behalf to arrange a conference at 10:35 Monday, January 12th. Monday the 12th, I met with REDACTED and School Principal Richard Turner in his office. REDACTED was very angry. She accused me of being an atheist, saying I was too liberal, and that I allowed the students to talk about inappropriate things in the classroom. I told her that occasionally students would get on topics and say things, but I was unable to censor them before they were able to say them. She said that I called her daughter a name and I denied the accusation. But then she said that I didn’t believe in god and shouldn’t be teaching. She also said that she had spoken to 3 other board members who agreed with her that I shouldn’t be teaching because I was too liberal and I was an atheist.

On January 15th, there was a board meeting. Nothing was on the agenda concerning me. During the open forum, several audience members spoke to their concerns that I was an atheist and I was too liberal. On January 16th, I was called to Mr. Richard Turner’s office (my principal), and he informed me that I had been put on administrative leave with pay. The reasons, as stated to me by Mr. Turner at the time, were that I was accused of being an atheist and teaching atheism in the classroom, and I was too liberal. On January 23rd, Mr. Turner and members of the board met behind closed doors concerning my suspension and allegations that were directed at me. On January 24th, I received a certified letter from Mr. Turner that stated that the causes for my suspension apparently had been changed to inappropriate contact with students and comments. He admonished me in the letter for having contact with students who had text-messaged me during my first week of suspension, but I had not received any administrative directive, or anything in writing, prior to that time telling me I could not have contact with students. On January 26th, I called my lawyer REDACTED, with ATTE, and informed him of my situation that I was put on administrative leave with pay, pending an investigation.

I later had conversations with parents and a person who lives in the community, who informed me that the principal had met with the minister of the local church and had discussed my suspension with him. I also later received information from REDACTED,a “SCHOOL EMPLOYEE-POSITION REDACTED”, that the minister was now subbing at the school and that he had heard that he would be taking my position, or if I returned he would be co-teaching with me.

There have been a number of rumors in our community now concerning inappropriate behavior: high school girls coming to my class to supposedly smoke marijuana, all kinds of accusations made by the members of the missionary baptist church at which this minister is the preacher. In the January 24th letter from Mr. Richard Turner, my principal, I was also informed that my suspension had been extended indefinitely.

Sincerely,
Richard Mullens

Original Link to the story

Filed under: anti-intellectualism, Religion | 13 Comments »

There seems to be a high corollary between Christianity and black and white reasoning. I am not saying that there is a causal connection although I suspect that there maybe a causal connection, but I have noticed that a very large number of Christians have a very hard time thinking in shades of gray. While I have noticed this much more in the more fundamentalist Christians than the more liberal Christians, I still see it often times within the liberal circles of Christianity as well.

In relation to morality this type of binary thinking is even more pronounced. It is not uncommon for people of reason to say that lying, as a general rule is bad, but to acknowledge that there are exceptions to almost every rule. In fact, morality itself is full of nuances which we as individuals must struggle with and navigate our way through and yet when I talk to Christians, often times something is either a sin or it isn’t. Something either pleases God or makes God angry. You are either with God or you are with the Devil. Stealing is wrong period. It is absolute and if you don’t think it is absolute than you must think that all morality is relative and therefore there can be no morality. Even when we talk about humanity itself, most Christians seem to think that humans can be either perfect or evil sinners… and of course since no one is perfect, we must all be evil sinners in need of salvation, right? No middle ground is afforded to people.

I see this as a serious limitation on thinking and I a limitation, which can be quite dangerous. And while not all Christians are stuck in this binary pattern, an extremely large number of Christians are trapped in this cell of limited reasoning. Many of the stories in the Bible do seem to reinforce black and white reasoning and many churches tend to push it as well. Binary thinking after all helps to raise the fear factor, which the more fundamentalist churches depend on. This is why Bush’s statement to other nations as being either with us or with the terrorists was so effective during his presidency. It tapped into this Christian paradigm of binary thinking.

Filed under: morality, Religion | 13 Comments »

I seem to get a lot of e-mails from Christians who believe in a literal Satan and in actual physical Demons. I guess they are like Death-Eaters from Harry Potter except a surprisingly high number of people seem to believe that these things are real and not fiction. It really is shocking to me how many adults really believe that they are key players in a spiritual war between God and the Devil.

It has always stuck me as odd that the particular Christians who believe in an all-powerful Creator of the Universe needs their help to defeat this evil Satan. As crazy as these people seem to be, I find it very difficult to criticize them for believing these ridiculous stories. After all, billions (with a B) believe that God is real. After that, is it really that difficult to claim that the Devil is real too? And if the Devil is real, is it really that difficult to claim that he wants your eternal soul (whatever that is)?

When I was young and my Christian friends told me about the Devil, I remember asking, “What does the Devil do with your Soul?” I still ask that question to some of my wackier Christians friends. Does the Devil collect them? Does he eat them? If he does eat them, do they taste good? Can I eat one?

The whole Bible story seems to have more holes in it than a bad Michael Bay movie and yet millions of people believe it is literally real and as a result, high jinks ensues. But you can’t criticize these stories, because the rest of Christianity likes to pretend that they believe these stories too… except when it isn’t convenient to do so or when modernity has made such beliefs untenable. The fact is that once one claims that any book was divinely inspired by the Creator of the Universe, than it really does become an all or nothing game. And when that happens, than when someone says that a Demon has taken possession of their kid and proceeds to “exercise” the Demon by killing their kid, we are forced to take such claims seriously as a society. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

Filed under: Religion, satan | 14 Comments »

A lot of times in my discussions with Christians of various degrees on the wacko scale, I am told that I just need to have faith. Faith is seen by the vast majority of Christians (from liberal to fundamental) as a virtue. Let me re-state that because it bears re-stating. Belief without evidence (the definition of faith) is seen as a good thing. It has been my experience that most Christians (even the liberal ones) would agree that belief without evidence (i.e. faith) is actually a more virtuous thing than belief with evidence and of course the Bible supports this line of “reasoning.”

“Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.” John 20: 29

Aside from the problem of faith in relation to faith itself, this “virtue” creates a much larger problem, which Sam Harris has often talked about. Faith is the fuel for Armageddon. While many Christians don’t agree with their more fundamentalist “Brothers in Christ” about a whole host of issues the fact is that it is religious faith itself which provides the context in which we are forced to actually debate in a serious manner whether or not the Devil made someone do it, or whether stem cells have souls, or is it better to die of AIDS and go to Heaven rather than to use a condom, live, and go to Hell. These are extreme examples of course and like I said, there are many Christians who don’t believe homosexuality is a sin or that the world is 6000 years old, but the fact is that it is because of religious faith that people of reason need to tread carefully when we through these ridiculous fictions out of academia and out of public policy.

It is in large part due to the more liberal Christians who don’t believe these things yet who get defensive whenever these ideas of laughed at that we still have to fight against Dark Aged thinking. Faith (all Christian faith) keeps these beliefs in our culture and in our lives. And so the fundamentalists have a silent partner on their side in this Culture War. At the end of the day, belief in Demons, Satan, and Creationism have the same validity as belief in God and Jesus. So when modernity and secular society reject the fundamentalist we are in a sense also threatening the beliefs of those on the other side of the Christian scale. Faith has linked this diverse group of people together against science, reason, and honest criticism.

Filed under: faith, Religion | 12 Comments »

The Super Bowl these days is all about one thing, the commercials and every advertiser wants to make sure their new million dollar ad makes it on the air for this commercial event. This is after all the one time of year when people actually want to watch the commercials.

Of course, it has become the job of the so called “moral majority” to police America at this critical time of Super Commercial Bowl. One of the ads that Fundamental Christians were against this year didn’t actually make it on the air for Super Bowl (except in Texas). This ad didn’t have any half naked women,  no drugs, not even violence. It was a commercial for the dating website, AshleyMadison.com, watch:

What? The site is promoting cheating? In comes the self-righteous indignation. To me, this issue isn’t about cheating or AshleyMadison at all. This issue speaks to a deeper issue. An issue which has been propagated so much in Christianity that often time, this issue continues to leave  a cloud in secular society as well. The issue is as the Reverend Rick Warren put it a few weeks back, “Lead us not in Temptation.”

AshleyMadison is a website for people looking for affairs and having an affair is wrong. But if a couple is in love (as a married couple should be) than neither party would want to have an affair. AshleyMadison isn’t forcing people to have affairs. So why are so many people worried about this website? What does this issue have to do with Christianity as a whole? Christians (most, not all of course) are taught that sin is evil and if they sin they will go to Hell. The Christians (most, not all) are often taught that one must avoid sin and guard themselves against temptation. The problem with this is that it teaches people that instead of having internal discipline so that vices have no hold over them and hence don’t tempt them, they are taught that they need to control the external world to block out all that might tempt them. This means censorship or imposing some form of restrictions on other people rather than self-restriction through self-discipline.

I think the point is that if someone has personal discipline and takes personal responsibility for themselves, then temptation wouldn’t bother them because they know they wouldn’t be tempted. I don’t drink alcohol, so I am never tempted by alcohol. I can be around any number of drinkers and not have to worry. I trust my wife and have a happy marriage, so I don’t have to worry about what AshleyMadison is doing. The only reason why someone should be worried about these things is if they haven’t developed that personal discipline. This is one of the many differences between Buddhism and Christianity.

There is an old Buddhist story that I will try to paraphrase in my own way to help me illustrate my point (if you are interested in the un-Staks-ified version of the story, it is in the book, “Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.” There were two new monks walking down a road. As they walked they came across a young woman who was walking the same road, but was stopped due to a large puddle blocking the road. The one monk (I’ll call him Bob the Buddhist) walked up to the young woman and offered to carry her across the puddle. She agreed and he carried her across and she went on her way. Then the other monk (I’ll call him Chris the Christian) waded through the puddle. The two monks then continued their journey. About 2 hours later, Chris turned to Bob and said, “Why did you do that? You know we are not supposed to touch women and there you were with a woman in your arms!” Bob cracked a smile at Chris and said, “I put the woman down, but you are still carrying her.”

Bob wasn’t tempted by the young woman and so it wasn’t a problem for him. Chris on the other hand was very bothered by it even though he didn’t touch the young woman. Chris was mad that Bob did. Many Christians are mad at AshleyMadison, but to me, I see the advertising and couldn’t care less about it. What I care about is what this ad tells me about others, particularly those who are so opposed to it.

Filed under: morality, Politics | 19 Comments »

This weekend, I was driving down the road when something behind me caught my eye. I looked in my rear-view mirror and there were three college aged guys in the car behind me laughing and flailing their arms around erratically. At first, I just thought they were frat being silly, but then one of the guys opened his window, stuck his head out, and yelled, “Fuck atheists!”

I have to say that I never had such a reaction to my bumper sticker before. The funny thing is that there guys didn’t even seem all that religious. I am usually pretty good at spotting fundamentalist Christians and I really don’t think these guys were hard core believers. I could of course be wrong on that. I have driven through much more religious places before and much more religious people have seen my bumper sticker, but yet these three college kids felt the need to shout, “Fuck atheists!”

That is really the thing about atheism. While it is true that atheists face all kinds of discrimination, threats of violence, and hate from various fundamentalist Christians, we also sometimes get similar reactions from people who aren’t fundamentalists or even some Christians who don’t even really think about their religion very much at all.

This is why I think it is so vitally important for atheists to be vocal about their lack of belief. The general public needs to know that we are out here and they need to understand that we aren’t going away. In fact, as time and modernity ticks by, more and more people are starting to think critically about religion. More and more people are starting to doubt the stories that have been indoctrinated into them since before they could speak. As a result of time and modernity, Christian apologists have had to re-interpret their timeless holy books to fit better with science and secular society.

The more I think about it, the happier I am at the reaction that my bumper sticker causes with those guys. I know that later that night at least one of them (and probably all three of them) will think about their behavior. They might even joke about it with each other at first and laugh about evil atheists. But all that is part of the process. I think is it common for people to resort of base insults when they feel insecure with themselves on particular issues. This is also why many homophobic people are later exposed as being closeted gays or as the Reverend Ted Haggard put it, “heterosexual but with homosexual attachments.”

I find that most Christians who lash out with base insults and childish behavior toward non-god-believers are in reality struggling with their own faith behind closed doors. They are afraid of their own thoughts and desperate to prove to others and even to themselves that they still believe. They still usually want to believe, but the fortunate fact is that they are slowly realizing that their belief just doesn’t make sense. They are atheists with Christian attachments.

P.B. (Post Blog)
Since everyone wants to know, here is the bumper sticker on my car

Filed under: Decline of Religion, Religion | 15 Comments »

Believe it or not, today is Election Day.  It is probably the most important election that most Americans probably never heard about. Today is the day in which the Republicans elect their champion to fix their Bush stained reputation and attempt to maybe keep some measure of relevance in the years to come. In other words, the civil war within the Republican Party comes to a head today. While there are three very distinct factions within the Republican Party (Imperialists, The greedy money grubbers, and the Religious Right) there are six somewhat odd candidates for the Chair of the Republican National Committee.

So here they are in no particular order:

Michael Steele of Maryland is a typical Republican on most issues except Affirmative Action which he actually supports. One thing which does separate him from other Republicans is of course that he is Black. So some of the Republican old guard may not think he is human.

Ken Blackwell of Ohio is also showing trying to prove that a black man can be a Republican too. And to prove it, Blackwell went on a bit of a crusade against Gay Marriage and even Civil Unions and Gay Benefits in the State of Ohio.

Katon Dawson isn’t black, but he is known in South Carolina as the Republican who has been able to reach out to… black people (okay, I cleaned that up a little but you get the point).

Chip Saltsman of Tennessee is bucking this African-American friendly group of candidates by once distributing a CD of 41 songs to his fellow Republicans one of which was entitled, “Barack the Magic Negro.” Well isn’t that delightful. He also worked closel with Mike Fuckabee… I mean Huckabee on his fortunately failed presidential run. Chip is a chip off the old Religious Right block all right.

Saul Anuzis of Michigan doesn’t look too bad. He’s a union man who is representing the fiscal conservative wing of the Party. I’m sure he would be a Libertarian if only he liked Ron Paul even a little. Anuzis was the guy who got Conspiracy Ron knocked out of the primary debates. He’s also still a Boy Scout, but that doesn’t mean that he’s a closeted gay.

Gary Emineth of North Dakota is…well, he’s from North Dakota! I got nothing.

This is going to the be biggest election you never heard about. Personally, I think I’m pulling for Saul Anuzis, but then again, I do think they all suck so I guess I’ll just stay home.

Filed under: Politics | 10 Comments »

A popular argument taught to fundamentalist college students is what I like to call the Christian Car Bomb Argument. The beauty of this argument is that it can be used to justify the most despicable actions in the name of love. It basically turns morality on its head. The argument may vary in many of the details, but basically it goes something like this:

If you knew that there was a bomb in your friend’s car wouldn’t you do what ever you could to stop your friend from getting into his car? If you really loved your friend, you would stop him or her from getting into his or her car at all costs, right?

The argument goes on to explain that Sin is the car bomb and Hell is a spiritual death. So if you really loved your friend, you would do what ever it took to make him or her swear their allegiance to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior… because God so loved the world that he sacrificed his only begotten son so that we can be with Him in Heaven and be granted eternal life forever and ever. If non-Christian friend doesn’t believe this, they will not be forgiven from sin (the bomb) and they will go to Hell for all eternity to be torture forever and ever. Therefore, a good loving Christian must do anything and everything (moral or immoral) to believe and worship Jesus. The ends justify the means and anything goes. All options are on the table because the fate of someone’s eternal soul rests in the balance.

There are a couple of problems with this argument. Let’s start with the fact that if there is no evidence for the existence of a Car Bomb in my car, I would ignore my friend’s warning. Especially if the bomb squad came and couldn’t find a bomb anywhere and my friend still kept ranting and raving about the car bomb. My friend might even say that you have to trust him or her or have “faith” that the bomb is real, but after awhile and a ton of evidence to the contrary, I would just assume that my friend was off his or her meds and get in my car and drive away. My friend might then say that it was still a bad idea, because no one knows the time or the place in which the car bomb might explode, but that it will explode “soon.” In other words, the fact that I drove the car and it didn’t explode is not evidence that the bomb doesn’t exist. In fact there can never be evidence that the car bomb doesn’t exist to my crazy friend.

The second problem is what I pointed to earlier that this argument teaches Christians that any and all actions (including immoral actions) are justified if it will save someone’s eternal soul. Christians are free to lie, cheat, steal, and even use physical force to save their friend’s eternal soul. After all, who cares if you hurt your friend’s physical body if you can save his spiritual life, right? Even Jesus said this when he talked about cutting off a thieving hand and plucking out a lustful eye. Con your friend, bribe him or her to come to a meeting, use fear, and even your sexuality to win his or her soul for Jesus. Like I said, anything is permissible. Don’t worry about sinning yourself, because Jesus died for your sins already and God will understand. The ends justify the means. Incidentally enough, this was the same reasoning used during the Spanish Inquisition for the torture on non-Christians. It doesn’t matter how much the physical body is tortured as long as you can save their eternal soul.

So next time you hear a Christian talk about the car bomb or some other variation on this argument (and there are many) you can ask them for proof of this “sin” thing and proof that you will go to Hell. You can tell your Christian friend that if you knew there was a bomb in his car, you would just show him the damn bomb and if he still didn’t believe you, you would let him drive off.

Filed under: Car Bomb Argument, Religion | 14 Comments »

Maybe it is because I grew up in the “We Are The World” generation, or my love of Sci-fi (particularly Star Trek and Babylon 5), or maybe it was my study of early American history, or maybe it was all those things combined, but I have always believed that it was humanities destiny (if you could use that term) to one day have world peace and to unite the people of Earth so that we can work toward solving our collective problems together and explore the new frontier of space. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect to see that in my lifetime, but I always thought that was the goal that we should all be working towards. No more petty disputes over lines on a map, no more hording of resources, etc.

Apparently, there are people out there who out of fear have decided that 193 separate nations fighting each other for power, resources, and land are better than one united humanity working together in peace. I have always been a supporter of the United Nations. And while I don’t think it is perfect, I think it can be fixed. Now, there are some people out there who tell me that we shouldn’t have a place where governments work out their differences in peace. These people tell me that the United Nations is one step removed from the evil and much feared “New World Order.”

I understand with power comes control and abuse. I also understand that America at one time (under the Articles of Confederation) was made up of 13 separate nations each with their own currency, border patrols, etc. It wasn’t working out for us and we federalized and created on big government to help police the 13 smaller “big” governments. This has caused some problems and it certainly isn’t perfect, but it at the end of the day it has solved more problems than it has caused. There will always be problems and eternal vigilance will always be the cost for freedom. I have come to the conclusion that a United Earth is the best way to solve many of the problems humanity has to deal with and it bothers me that there are people out there who through fear of some evil totalitarian boogieman are working against this necessary first step to a greater humanity.

Sure there will always be people trying to take and abuse power, but we cannot allow our fear to control us; because at the end of the day there really is nothing to fear except fear itself.

Filed under: Politics | 5 Comments »

People always ask me whether or not I think we are wasting our breath arguing with Christians. They tell me stories about how they discuss, debate, and/or argue religion with the religious and seem to get nowhere. “What’s the point?” they ask me.

I have been discussing, debating, and arguing with Christians and other believers in the Abrahamic God for a long time now and I can tell you right now that I have never had an experience in which a Christian heard what I had to say and then said, “You know, you’re right, Christianity is bullshit.” That has never happened and I doubt very much that it ever will. But I also rarely if ever had someone say, “You made some great points in relation to politics, you’ve convinced me.” In fact, only when discussing philosophy or science with philosophers or scientific minded people have I been able to convince anyone of anything right there on the spot. Despite this fact however, I can tell you that people do in fact reject Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Most atheists were at one point a believer in one of the Abrahamic religions. I was once religiously Jewish and was thoroughly convinced that God existed and that he inspired the writing of a book. So that is evidence that rational arguments do work. But how do they work?

More often than not, you discuss, debate, and/or argue with a Christian (or other Abrahamic religious person) and they argue back. Then, you both go home. The following Sunday, they go to Church/Bible Study/other house of worship and they say to their religious leader, “I was arguing with this atheist the other day and he/she said X. I couldn’t think of a good response to that. What should I tell him/her next time?” The religious leader will then give them a standard answer and they will go home. Later that week, they will think about how they will argue with you or someone like you next time. They will think about their religious leader’s answer and imagine themselves giving that answer to you. Then they will think about your possible response. They will realize that the answer that their religious leader gave wasn’t very good.

Next the Christian goes onto the “internets” and enters a Christian chat room or message board. They explain the situation to their fellow followers and get a swarm of responses. The Christian signs out, feels great, and goes to bed. The next day or later that week, they will think about how they will argue with you or someone like you next time. They will think about all the answers they got from their fellow Christians and imagine themselves giving those answers to you. Then they will think about your possible responses. They will realize that the answers that they got weren’t very good.

Next they will go back to the “internets” and do some googling. A few weeks will go by and they will continue going to church and hanging out with their Christian friends. But now something is different. Somewhere along the line their 100% absolute certainty has been altered slightly to, “maybe there is a God, but he probably isn’t exactly like the Bible says he is.” Now they can still go around and call themselves a Christian because they still believe in a God. But they aren’t quite as certain as they once were.

The more they get challenged even in their more moderate wishy-washy belief in some Vague Higher Power concept the more they will be forced to reject more and more of the dogmas they once believed with 100% certainty. Over time, even their belief in the Vague Higher Power gives way to reason and they are forced to conclude that such an entity probably doesn’t really exist after all.

I have had many people who I have discussed religion with come back to me years later and tell me that they have now become atheists or at the very least what they call agnostics. Some have come back to me claiming to still be Christian, but reject the Bible as literal Truth. The fact is that it does happen and it seems to be happening more and more. The more Christians cling to the more fundamentalist view of Christianity the easier it is for them to learn how ridiculous that view actually is in time.

So don’t be discouraged from discussing or debating religion with a “believer” whether they are moderate or fundamentalist.

Filed under: de-conversion, Religion | 9 Comments »

Dangerous Talk is an atheist/progressive daily blog discussing the three most dangerous topics of polite conversation: Religion, Politics, and Sex. Our goal is to fight back against the Religious Right and push for a more free and rational society.

While this blog is primarily about atheism and our target audience is intended to be atheists, we of course welcome the opinions of religious people (particularly Christians). Dangerous Talk is different than many other atheist blogs in that our emphasis is not as much on news of interest to atheists, but rather on philosophical issues and arguments. As such, feel free to search the categories in the sidebar for past articles which may be of interest. Adobe Fireworks CS6 – Abcoemstore.com/product/adobe-fireworks-cs6/ is the version of Fireworks that was included with Adobe Creative Suite 6 Design & Web Premium and Master Collection.

The host of Dangerous Talk, Staks Rosch, has also appeared as a panelist on Pennsylvania Television’s CN8 on It’s Your Call with Lynn Doyle to argue against Intelligent Design in the classroom.

Filed under: Uncategorized | 40 Comments »