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‘Humans Poison Everything’

Yesterday I was watching part of the debate between Christopher Hitchens and Intelligent Design proponent Dr. William Demski of the “Discovery Institute” (which for the record has yet to discover anything). In any case, Demski made a particular claim that many other Christian make, but not as forcefully as Demski did. He stated that “Humans poison everything.”

This was obviously a play on the subtitle of Hitchens’s book God is Not Great: How Religious Poisons Everything. But Demski’s remark really does cut right to the center of the Christian/Humanist divide.

You see, Christianity sets up a dilemma and then offers the only solution. The dilemma is you! According to the Christian belief system people are inherently evil. We live in a “fallen world” as Demski put it.

As a Humanist, I reject this view. I am not claiming that people are perfect, but I am claiming that people aren’t evil. The way I see it, we are all trying to be the heroes in our own story, but get sidetracked along the way. Often times we do bad things not because we are evil, but because it is sadly all we know. We observe others doing bad things and so we get conditioned into thinking that it isn’t that bad if everyone else is doing it too.

The point is that people don’t generally go around thinking, “What evil deed can I do today?” The issue between Christians and Humanists is a matter of focus. I see the glass as half full, while Christians see the glass as completely empty.

Then they pull out the old, but God loves us even though we are the most repulsively evil creatures imaginable. They often belief that this gives even more praise to their deity, but in reality it just shows how incompetent their god really is to have created such evil creatures when he perfectly planned to create the perfect creatures. But it isn’t God’s fault that you are an evil sinner, it is our fault because Adam ate an apple (yes I know it wasn’t literally an apple).

The point of this elaborate story is that Christians are self-hating. They don’t just hate themselves though, they also hate you. “Humans poison everything” as Demski put it.
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  • Durr Hurr

    Humans do indeed poison everything. But only humans like William Dumbski.

  • ccolumbus

    I agree with both of you that Humans do indeed poison everything, even William Dembski. The only significant difference I would note is that humans inherit this poison. It can even be traced back to a single source, and eventually found in one person and one fall. This poison is sin, so truthfully humans have chosen to poison everything. This choice effects you and it also effects me. We must now deal with it in some way. Right?

  • http://www.socialinjustices.net dlevitt

    You would think that after 2000 years of never being right about anything, Dumbski and his groupski might just conclude that they are being taken for a ride. I guess that’s the magical part about this lunacy, you never have to be right about anything, you just have to think you are. How easy is that?

  • ccolumbus

    Actually, this “lunacy” that you speak of would span further than just 2000 years if you hold that Jesus was a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah. Although I could fill this comment with numerous Biblical examples that show that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah that was written about, I will not for the sake of space. In response to dlevitt, the magical part of this lunacy is actually the gift of God for us to freely think and choose what is right. We do not function as lifeless robots, but are given the freedom to think and choose as we decide. I think we both can agree that we have an instinct to know what is right.

  • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

    Actually there was no Jewish Messiah prophecy. That is just made up Christian bullshit. But I’ll save hat for another blog on another day.

    The point of this this day’s blog is that Christians view people as inherently evil (sinful, fallen) and Humanists treat people as thought we are all trying to be heroes in our own story.

  • ccolumbus

    Rather than illustrate how there was in fact a Jewish Messianic Prophecy, I will focus this reply to hopefully clarify your understanding of the Christian doctrine of sin. You are not very far off about Christians viewing people as sinful and fallen, but I think there is something missing from your final statement that “They don’t just hate themselves though, they also hate you.” If you take the quote of Dembski out of context, then it can sound like Christians hate people. However, this hatred is not a part of Christian faith. It is true that Christian faith hold to a fallen and sinful humanity, but there is no special position given to people once they have become a Christ follower that allows them to stand in judgement or hatred of someone else. This is the case because of two reasons. 1. Jesus Christ did not set that kind of example, He offered himself as a sacrifice for all people’s sins. 2. Christians are called to view the world and pursue all people through the grace that God has shown them in the redeeming work of Jesus in their personal lives.
    I apologize that you misunderstand Christian faith, but please understand that Christians by no means hate anyone.

  • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

    While I was quoting Dembski because it was his wording that reminded me of this view, it is still the prevailing view that Christians view everyone as evil sinners while humans tend to view everyone as heroes in their own story. The Christian view is that only through the vicarious redemption of sin through Jesus can people be “saved” from the evil that they are. If one does not follow Jesus then they are to be tortured for all eternity because they are evil sinners. That is the point here. Do you deny this?

  • ccolumbus

    Your understanding of the Christian faith is very accurate, but it falls short in one small aspect. The eternal punishment or torture as you have stated is in direct relationship to the free choice of any human who rejects Jesus’ act of atonement. So your viewpoint that humans tend to view everyone as heroes in their own story is almost correct, but in the Christian worldview, humanity has been given an opportunity and free will to choose salvation that comes through Christ. So, the people that reject Christ are given over to their hardness of heart and evil desires and are given want they truly desire, separation from God which is not just torture but complete loneliness and no hope. In fact, the grace of God never stops pursuing people, even into the depths of Hell. Even in Hell, God’s grace and hope are present, but the free choice of those people who rejected Christ, God gave them over to what they truly wanted. So humans are not heroes in the sense that they can use super powers change the outcome of their life, but God has given them all the evidence needed to understand their sinful nature and the vicarious redemption of sin through Jesus, and a free will that allows them to chose to believe by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

  • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

    So basically, you are saying that I am correct and that Christians view everyone as evil sinners.

    As for the other nonsense, I have written quite a bit on Sin, Vicarious Redemption of Sin, Free Will, and Hell. Please see the “Categories” section in the Sidebar —->

  • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

    I do want to clarify something here. Please re-read this blog post. What exactly do you disagree with here. It seems from your last comment that you are in complete agreement with me.

  • TurtlePower

    You have a very interesting view of how Christians view people and themselves. For a Christian they do view themselves a naturally evil people. We believe that we are born with a Sin nature because of the fall of Adam and Eve. God did not create evil but gave humanity free will to make there own decisions. If we didn’t have free will then we would just be robots. A robot doesn’t have a choice in what it does or what it loves; it just does what its programed to do. I think that even looking at a small child it is pretty evident that we have some sort of rebellion in us, you don’t have to teach a child to say NO. I do think that Christians see themselves as sinners but the good thing is that God provided a way for us to have redemption. God gives us a second chance through his Son Jesus.

    This is a really good topic lets keep discussion going.