If you intresting in sport Buy trenbolone and Buy testosterone enanthate you find place where you can find information about steroids
  • Resources

  • Book of the Month

  • Shopping on Amazon? Use this search box and support Dangerous Talk at the same time.
  • Blog Directories

    blog search directory Religion Top Blogs
  • AdSense

Christianity’s Two Gods

I know that Christianity is supposedly a monotheistic religion and everything, but after talking to various Christians throughout my life, it seems like various Christians are talking about two gods rather then one.

The Bible talks very specifically about God and who this character is. God is wrath and vengeance. God is an angry and jealous god. God is the creator of all things good and evil. God orders wars, rape, genocide, and sends powerful delusions (i.e. lies). In the New Testament, God even increases his demand for blood and introduces the concept of eternal torture. But God isn’t a bad guy at all. He is the very definition of goodness if he does say so himself… and he does.

But there is another god of Christianity and that is the god who is actually a good and moral God by our human standards of morality. This God loves everyone and wouldn’t send anyone to be tortured for all eternity in Hell at all. Everyone goes to Heaven to be reunited with their family, friends, and loved ones. God wants what is best for you, not for him. He is a selfless, charitable deity who sent his only son to Earth to teach everyone about peace and love and just wants everyone to give peace a chance. That god is John Lennon, Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and the Dali Lama all rolled up into one apparently.

This second God of Christianity isn’t in the Bible, but nevertheless, most Christians worship that god over the Biblical God. I think this is probably because most Christians haven actually read their Bible cover-to-cover because these two gods couldn’t be more different is they tried. There really is no way to confuse these two deities and yet more times than not, these two deities are confused by mainstream believers.

While neither of these deities are real, only one of them even has Biblical support and it isn’t the peace and love deity. I think more people would reject their belief in God if they realized that it is the first God which is the God of the Bible and not the second God. If more people realized that the second God is just what they wish God to be rather than what God was written to be in the Bible then they would be less supportive of the whole concept of a god.

Mark Twain put it best when he said that he didn’t know whether God existed or not, but he thinks that it would be better for his reputation if he didn’t.

Bookmark and Share

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
  • Tony

    Could the Old Testament simply be a cynical ploy by levitical tyrants to cement their power base? After all the Levites get a tenth of everything and do none of the work… and they’re apparently the only ones allowed to commune with god. Sounds like a good deal.

  • John

    There’s actually 1 triune God, that’s the doctrine of the Trinity. For someone who claims to have read the Bible cover to cover you’d think you might have picked up on that one. E.G. “In the name of Father (1) and of the Son (2) and of the Holy Spirit (3)”

    The so called “second God” of which you speak also has Biblical support, in both the Old and New Testaments. I don’t suppose while reading the Bible cover to cover you happened to spend any time studying the Book of Jonah, did you? Or any of the epistles of St. Paul perhaps? Or the Book of Hebrews? Or did you pass over them because they didn’t contain anything objectionable you could cherry pick to try to ridicule Christian faith?

    • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

      God creates man and woman and puts them in a garden. He places a tree of knowledge in the garden to test temptation. A talking snake appears in the garden tells them to eat the apple. God punishes Adam and Eve for making an inevitable decision that a perfect God could have seen coming since he knows the future.

      God picks favorites with Cain and Abel and causes the first murder. God gets angry over how evil people became and floods the world and besides what came onto the arc, mass murdered everything, plants and animals alike.

      After the arc landed, Noah created a alter and burned a several of the spare clean animals in a huge blood sacrifice for God.

      One of Noah’s sons accidentally walks into Noah’s tent while Noah was drunk and naked and after accidentally seeing his nakedness, God curses Noah’s son and his descendants.

      Humans built a city with a massive tower and God didn’t like that humans used science and reason so he confused them with different languages to end the construction.

      Abraham went to Egypt, lied about his wife and said he was his sister. The Pharaoh took his wife into sexual servitude. After finding out that she was Abraham’s wife, Abraham somehow gains a bunch of wealth and slaves and travels to the land of Canaan.

      Abraham can’t get his wife pregnant so he bangs one of his wife’s female slaves and when the female slave is unhappy about the situation Abraham and his wife fail to understand why.

      The list goes on, this is just genesis. You have to cherry pick to find good lines. So far, genesis has shown God to be vengeful, imperfect, emotional, irrational, among other negative characteristics.

      • John

        Yes Scott, you certainly did have to cherry-pick to find those good lines. I could go line by line to explain to you the context for each of those items, but suffice it to say God grants us all free will. Certainly men do many foolish things then as now, but to claim what you do about God only betrays your own petulant pride. Abe in pacem.

        • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

          Have you ever read the bible? I don’t think you have. Explain the context of these lines then. Nearly every chapter in Genesis has some atrocity in it.

          Tell me why:

          God picked a favorite with Cain and Abel, why did he put forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden. If God knows everything, then he knew they would eat the fruit eventually and thus his punishment of mankind is then consider unjust and cruel. Why did Noah’s son and his descendants get cursed for seeing Noah naked accidentally? Why did God get angry when humans used the brains given to them to design a giant tower? How is Abraham a righteous man when he allows his wife to be a sex slave to the pharaoh and later on rapes his own slave?

          The fact is, there are horrid things in the bible and the argument about context is bullshit because what I am presenting is exactly what it says in the bible. Unless you are able to somehow justify the negative things here, God is an evil character, and thus, that moves us into the next blog: If God were evil, would Christians still worship him?

          • John

            No Scott you are the one who is evil, and I honestly couldn’t care less what you think, because it has less than no impact on the reality of my own scholarship. Because you chose to persist in your ignorance however, allow me to enlighten you: Why did God pick favorites between Cain and Abel? Because he preferred the choices one made over the other. Why did he put the forbidden fruit in the garden? Because without free will, man is nothing more than a dog, even if you don’t always agree with the choices he makes. Why did Noah’s son’s descendants get cursed for an accident? Because they should have been more careful, if I accidentally wreck my car am I punished any less than if I were to intentionally damage it? Why did get God angry when men tried to build the tower of Babel? Because, like you, they were overcome by the sin of Pride. They began to think that if they can build fancy towers than they would be higher than the Creator. As to your other statements, they are just outright lies. Abraham did not give his wife to be a sex slave to Pharaoh you imbecile. At worst he, fearing for his life, claimed her to be his sister rather than his wife. It was Pharaoh who then took her into his house, as he was after all the King of the land. And, despite your repeated claims, Abraham did not rape Hagar, whom was not even his slave, but rather his wife Sarai’s. Sarai gave her over to her husband to become his second wife and to bear him a child, Ishmael. You are not at all presenting anything exactly as it appears in the Bible. Unlike yourself, God is not an evil character.

            • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

              LOL, wow,

              First I am evil for rejecting a highly questionable book.

              “Why did God pick favorites between Cain and Abel? Because he preferred the choices one made over the other.”

              Abel kept flocks while Cain worked the soil. Cain didn’t have access to the flesh that Abel had.

              “Why did he put the forbidden fruit in the garden? Because without free will, man is nothing more than a dog, even if you don’t always agree with the choices he makes.”

              But dog’s have free will too. If you had a toddler in a room with a thing of temptation he wasn’t to touch but also allowed someone to go to them and tell them to touch it while you were away, then inevitably they would touch it. For the toddler would lack the experience in life to know or understand temptation. Also, if God knows the future, we have no free will anyways since he knows everything we will do.

              “Why did Noah’s son’s descendants get cursed for an accident? Because they should have been more careful, if I accidentally wreck my car am I punished any less than if I were to intentionally damage it?”

              Apples and oranges, walking in on somebody naked on accident is not the same as wrecking a car. Also, Noah got drunk and passed out naked in his tent so it is partially his fault. If someone forgot to lock the bathroom door and you walked in, should you and your descendants suffer? Why would a good loving God allow for suffering anyways?

              “Why did get God angry when men tried to build the tower of Babel? Because, like you, they were overcome by the sin of Pride.”

              Why do we have towers today then? Do you know why the bible thinks pride is bad? Because the people who wrote it wanted peasants to remain happy has peasants rather than try to move up and become more than peasants.

              “As to your other statements, they are just outright lies. Abraham did not give his wife to be a sex slave to Pharaoh you imbecile. At worst he, fearing for his life, claimed her to be his sister rather than his wife. It was Pharaoh who then took her into his house, as he was after all the King of the land.”

              He allowed it to happen because it allowed Abram to gain wealth because they thought Abram was her brother. Also, Abram kept slaves.

              Oh, and I am laughing my ass off at your attempt at name calling.

              “Abraham did not rape Hagar, whom was not even his slave, but rather his wife Sarai’s.”

              Either way, the slave had no choice in the matter which constitutes rape.

              “Sarai gave her over to her husband to become his second wife and to bear him a child, Ishmael.”

              Yeah, and Ishmael was cursed by God too because Hagar ran away after being mistreated by Sarai. Some just God we have here.

              “You are not at all presenting anything exactly as it appears in the Bible. Unlike yourself, God is not an evil character.”

              I had the bible in my hands and read each part before I responded to your points. Your counter arguments were poor and failed to explain why God is good. Also, paragraphs are your friend.

              Also, I’m curious as to how I am evil? I suppose you are so delusional that you think that I am automatically evil because I am atheist.

              • John

                No Scott, you are not evil because you an atheist, you are an atheist because you are evil. Though I can understand the confusion on your part. I was not trying to explain why God is good, one may as well try to explain why fire is warm, I was simply explaining that you are a liar, and nothing you’ve said refutes that, and in most of your response you’ve only compounded your lies. As there is no point attempting to debate with a dishonest party, I say again abe in pace.

                • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

                  “No Scott, you are not evil because you an atheist, you are an atheist because you are evil.”

                  Well, I’d rather be evil than be a sheep I suppose. Even though I haven’t done anything evil other than reject God.

                  “I was not trying to explain why God is good, one may as well try to explain why fire is warm, I was simply explaining that you are a liar, and nothing you’ve said refutes that, and in most of your response you’ve only compounded your lies.”

                  We know fire is warm because we can measure it while we can’t even prove God exists. And what I told you was not lies, but rather what is actually in the bible if you have the reading comprehension to make out what is happening in the text.

                  Do you know why you are taught that atheists are evil and that God is good? Because it is highly beneficial to many power people for you to be a sheep under the banner of Christianity. A long time ago, Israel was conquered and despite God making a promise to leave that land to the Hebrews, he allows it to be conquered and the Hebrews to be slaves to the Babylonians. The Babylonians end up with good slaves that are happy with their position due to the bible teaching that it is much easier for a slave or peasant to get into heaven. Without God, these slaves might have made a lot more effort to break free.

                  Rome became Christian because Constitine wanted the Roman population to be easier to control. Charlemagne forced people to become Christian or die when the Frankish Empire arose in the Dark Ages.

                  The bible has countermeasures to make sure you remain a Christian. The first chapter takes the historic icon of wisdom, the snake, and makes him out to be evil. Thus, we learn that curiosity, wisdom, and knowledge are bad and the reason is because if one has too many of those traits, they can then undo their belief in the bible. Also, being an atheist is the only unforgivable sin.

                  “As there is no point attempting to debate with a dishonest party, I say again abe in pace.”

                  Suit yourself, but know that I live a life where I enjoy true freedom and free will while you do not.

                  • John

                    Scott, don’t you see? You are the one who’s the slave to your own pathetic lies. I truly feel sorry for you. You know nothing. No one taught me that atheists are evil, and I say again I don’t think you’re evil because you’re an atheist. I suspect it’s entirely possible that there are atheists who are not evil. But you are not one of them. I think it is because of your evil notions and deeds that you try to rationalize away that God must not exist because you can’t bear to stand before his judgment. You keep whining about how we can’t prove that God exists and yet you just as equally can’t prove that God doesn’t exist.

                    Your Marxist nonsense about Judaism making the Israelites easier to control by the Babylonians is so patently ridiculous as to be laughable. Everything you say is a lie. I’m not the one who’s the sheep, you are and you don’t even realize it. Free your mind Scott, look past the pathetic lies that hold you captive to your sins. Emancipate yourself. You may mock the Israelites for becoming slaves of the Babylonians and the Persians and the Assyrians and the Romans, but unlike you through it all they never forgot the truth and ultimately they have triumphed. Without God those slaves would have been overcome with despair, their culture would have been broken and they would not have even tried to make the second Temple in Jerusalem. And yet it was built again, even if it was ultimately smashed by the Romans in 79 AD, what other slave race ever built any monument to their own culture other than that of their masters?

                    If Constantine (at least spell the man’s name right) was so excited about making the Roman population easier to control, why did he wait until he was on his deathbed to be baptized? It was precisely because he couldn’t control the pagan army that was dominated by the cult of Sol Invictus that he did not dare openly convert to Christianity until the end of his life. And even then the very notion that Christianity, a religion that emphasizes individualism would make Romans easier to control than the warlike numinous pagan cults that Romans had worshipped up to that time is not only patently ridiculous but the immediate decline of the Roman Imperial power in the wake of it being Christianized puts the lie to your nonsensical statement.

                    As for Charlemagne, do you forget what his grandfather was famous for? I’ll give you a hint it happened on October 10, 732 AD when the first religion to expand itself by giving everyone around them the choice to convert or die reached its high-water mark in Western Europe and was defeated in what is now a little remembered battle between the Northern French towns of Tours and Poitiers. Charles Martel and Charlemagne spread Christianity by the sword not because that was a Christian doctrine, but in reaction to a neighboring aggressive religion that literally did spread by forcing people to embrace Islam or die. As usual you’ve got it all wrong.

                    As for your bizarre notions Christianity considers curiosity, wisdom and knowledge to be bad I can only ask you stop and think about what part of the world is the most technologically advanced, and has been for the last 500 years? You don’t get it do you? It is Christianity that lead Europeans to explore the world themselves and develop the scientific method, for one of the Cardinal tenets of Christianity is Truth and what is science without Truth?

                    And if you know anything at all about Christianity, you should know that there are no unforgivable sins in Christianity. Yes Scott even you can be redeemed, though I don’t delude myself that there’s much hope for you. So once again I bid you ite in pace. (Who knew I had the Latin wrong all this time)

                    • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

                      “Scott, don’t you see? You are the one who’s the slave to your own pathetic lies. I truly feel sorry for you. You know nothing. No one taught me that atheists are evil, and I say again I don’t think you’re evil because you’re an atheist. I suspect it’s entirely possible that there are atheists who are not evil. But you are not one of them. I think it is because of your evil notions and deeds that you try to rationalize away that God must not exist because you can’t bear to stand before his judgment. You keep whining about how we can’t prove that God exists and yet you just as equally can’t prove that God doesn’t exist.”

                      You can’t prove that the Gods of other religions don’t exist either. The burden of proof falls upon the one making the claim. Once again you are calling me evil when I have done nothing evil but condemn your religion. And I didn’t become an atheist because of my fear of God’s judgment. I became atheist because of what I had learned in science and I came to realize the world makes a lot more sense without God.

                      Let me use your logic against you: You are evil because you worship an evil God who blesses evil people like Abraham who keeps slaves, lies, rapes, and has not an ounce of courage. You cannot stand the thought of no afterlife so you rationalize that there must be a God so that you can live forever. You keep telling me lies about what is actually stated in the bible.

                      “Your Marxist nonsense about Judaism making the Israelites easier to control by the Babylonians is so patently ridiculous as to be laughable.”

                      How is that laughable?

                      “Everything you say is a lie.”

                      LOL

                      “I’m not the one who’s the sheep, you are and you don’t even realize it.”

                      I can’t be a sheep if I don’t think the majority.

                      “Free your mind Scott, look past the pathetic lies that hold you captive to your sins.”

                      The only sins I have committed is rejecting your religion

                      “You may mock the Israelites for becoming slaves of the Babylonians and the Persians and the Assyrians and the Romans, but unlike you through it all they never forgot the truth and ultimately they have triumphed.”

                      Israel was located in a spot that forced it to go to extreme measures to remain competitive against Egypt, Babylon, Persia, etc. The pressure forced them to make a better religion than their neighbors. Having a single God prevents local communities from having their own Gods and unifies the nation. The story of Babel established that Judaism didn’t need to waste wealth building massive pyramids or temples and could focus their resources on their armies and such. The whole point of the Abraham story is that God and your King can do all the atrocities they want, but you still need to obey and worship them. It was because of these qualities that Rome eventually took Christianity as their own religion.

                      “Without God those slaves would have been overcome with despair, their culture would have been broken and they would not have even tried to make the second Temple in Jerusalem. And yet it was built again, even if it was ultimately smashed by the Romans in 79 AD, what other slave race ever built any monument to their own culture other than that of their masters?”

                      The slaves maybe would have put some effort into escaping slavery. And as stated earlier, minimal effort was put into building religious structures in biblical times. It wasn’t until the religion moved to Europe that monasteries and cathedrals started to dominate the landscape. I’d have to look it up to confirm this but I am not completely sure if there is proof that the temple even existed.

                      “If Constantine (at least spell the man’s name right) was so excited about making the Roman population easier to control, why did he wait until he was on his deathbed to be baptized? It was precisely because he couldn’t control the pagan army that was dominated by the cult of Sol Invictus that he did not dare openly convert to Christianity until the end of his life.”

                      It took a long time for Christianity to catch on in Rome. He legalized it and organized what was in and out when it came to the bible.

                      “And even then the very notion that Christianity, a religion that emphasizes individualism would make Romans easier to control than the warlike numinous pagan cults that Romans had worshipped up to that time is not only patently ridiculous but the immediate decline of the Roman Imperial power in the wake of it being Christianized puts the lie to your nonsensical statement.”

                      Whoa, Christianity emphasizes individualism? Where did you get this notion from? Also, Rome fell to barbarian tribes and often times it was because former commanders would often leave the Rome army and lead barbarian tribes against Rome. Constantine may have never accomplished everything he wanted in his life time, but eventually at some point all of Europe was Christian.

                      “As for Charlemagne, do you forget what his grandfather was famous for? I’ll give you a hint it happened on October 10, 732 AD when the first religion to expand itself by giving everyone around them the choice to convert or die reached its high-water mark in Western Europe and was defeated in what is now a little remembered battle between the Northern French towns of Tours and Poitiers. Charles Martel and Charlemagne spread Christianity by the sword not because that was a Christian doctrine, but in reaction to a neighboring aggressive religion that literally did spread by forcing people to embrace Islam or die. As usual you’ve got it all wrong.”

                      So both Islam and Christianity forced people to convert by the sword. The point still is that Christianity forced upon people by the sword. As I learned in my humanities class, Europe was going pagan mostly but through Charlemagne efforts it became Christianity that dominated.

                      “As for your bizarre notions Christianity considers curiosity, wisdom and knowledge to be bad I can only ask you stop and think about what part of the world is the most technologically advanced, and has been for the last 500 years? You don’t get it do you? It is Christianity that lead Europeans to explore the world themselves and develop the scientific method, for one of the Cardinal tenets of Christianity is Truth and what is science without Truth?”

                      Wrong. Read up about “Guns, Germs, and Steel”

                      Europe dominated by because of religion. China was isolated and stagnated. India was isolated and stagnated. Europe had natural barriers like the English channel, Rhine river, the Alps, the Pyrenees to prevent anybody from dominating the continent and thus forced competition. Europe’s location provided it with many domestic animals and crops that proved to be essential to building empires. Compare this to the Americas where they only had Llamas for large livestock and crops like Maize that required more effort to plant than wheat or barley.

                      Europe explored the world not because of Christianity. They did it because they wanted silk and spice from China but the Turks decided to close off the silk road so they had to find alternate routes instead. Also, Europe had used up most of its resources and with it’s hungry population they needed to search abroad.

                      As for science, lets talk about Galileo. He proved that the Earth orbited the sun rather than the sun orbiting the Earth and the catholic church gave him crap and put him on house arrest. If anything Christianity hindered science.

                      And how is Christianity about Truth? It’s faith based and just because Christians claim to have a monopoly on truth doesn’t make it true.

                      “And if you know anything at all about Christianity, you should know that there are no unforgivable sins in Christianity. Yes Scott even you can be redeemed, though I don’t delude myself that there’s much hope for you.”

                      The bible says that if you reject the holy spirit then there is no saving you.

                      “So once again I bid you ite in pace.”

                      So what the hell does this mean? You keep ending posts with this cryptic stuff.

  • Kammy

    Wow John! Great job defending Christianity!Remember however frustrated you get with unbelievers always speak the truth in love. We can only hope to plant a seed, we can not force our beliefs on someone else. As Christians we should never tell someone that they are not “good enough” or “hopeless”. Scott has until Christs’ return to be saved. Noone knows the day or hour. Dust the ashes from your feet John, others need to hear the gospel. Don’t be angered if their walk is not the same as yours.
    We all learn at a different pace, we’ve all come from a different place in our lives. Keep it up! God’s using you in a mighty way! Remember plant the seed and if you need to, dust your feet…. don’t let anger distract you from God’s message. It makes it easier for an unbeliever to reject him.

    • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

      “Wow John! Great job defending Christianity!Remember however frustrated you get with unbelievers always speak the truth in love. We can only hope to plant a seed, we can not force our beliefs on someone else. As Christians we should never tell someone that they are not “good enough” or “hopeless”.”

      You have a far better attitude than John does. He called me an imbecile and he also told me I was evil. I’ve learned when debating with people to avoid name calling and stick to the points on hand and bonus points to you if the other party gets angry.

      “Scott has until Christs’ return to be saved.”

      I cannot be saved because rejecting the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. But there is nothing to worry about, my life long studies of nature and space haven’t given me a shred of evidence that the bible is real. I’ve also read the bible and am in the process of rereading it again. What the purpose of this blog was to show that the God who appears in the bible is not the God that preachers and the general public worship.

      • Kammy

        Scott,
        Christ only asks for us to be sorry for our wrong doings (sin) and to turn from it. You don’t have to keep rejecting the Holy Spirit. Why do you need proof to believe something? You only need a tiny amount of faith and a desire to understand God’s purpose for us as Christians. That doesn’t mean we are limited in what we choose to do. It doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to make mistakes…. trust me I know because I still make them. It means… wow… pause.. think before you react…. how might my choice effect someone else? Am I building a person up in support, or tearing them down taking with me their confidence? I think you should read the NKJV Application Bible. If you’re going to re-read it. It’s packed with explanations
        of the verses, referances, maps, chapter previews etc. Just a suggestion… I understood the blog and many preachers are not preaching the God of the bible. Many want to sugar coat certain subjects to remain popular among the people. It’s easier to deny sin than to face it head on. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He was, is, and will always be. People will change…they will try and change God with their science, books, theories, trips to the moon, you name it.. On and on they will continue to dispute God’s existance. If I can say one thing to you it’s this… Never set your eyes upon man, woman, nor child because sooner or later they’re going to disappoint you. Bad things don’t happen to us because God’s punishing us. He’s preparing us. I promise you I never thought I would hear myself says those words. But I know from experience. I might be 34 yrs old but I feel like I’ve lived five lifetimes, so many lessons learned, so many trials… but I wouldn’t change one, not one. I’ll tell you them and what I mean if you want to know, if it could make a difference or give you hope! You’re not evil Scott, you’re just lost and you need healing…. Christ can give it to you. John 3:16
        I’ll be here if you want to comment. Take Care
        God Bless

        • http://myspace.com/scott888 Scott

          “Why do you need proof to believe something?”

          Without proof, we allow ourselves to be slaves to an imaginary code of conduct. Who is to say that Zeus is the real God and the God of the bible is imaginary? How can one dedicate themselves to the bible when so many other religions exist and each religion usually teaches that the other religions are wrong or bad?

          “how might my choice effect someone else?”

          When the vast majority of the population is Christian, politicians capitalize on this. Christians believe the world is ending and thus do not care about the environment. Also, the parties that support the religious right also support the elite who want to oppress us and keep us poor, unlike in Europe or Canada where people are more equal. Because Christians believe in an after life they feel it is already to send people to die in a war because they get to go to heaven. But they don’t go to heaven, they die and that is the end for them, nothing else happens.

          So long as people believe in life after death, wars will happen more frequently. Also, progress gets slowed down because people won’t let us do stem cell research or the fact we can’t get more done with space exploration because the public lacks natural curiosity of our origins because they believe we already have the answers.

          “I think you should read the NKJV Application Bible. If you’re going to re-read it. It’s packed with explanations”

          I’m sure it is incredibly biased, I’d prefer to make my own judgment from the original text.

          As for the rest, you have a good attitude about things overall. If one wants to have faith then they must do so without being detrimental to human progress.