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Not Despite Miracles, But Because of Them

The other day, a Christian wrote to me and told me that he didn’t think that even if incontrovertible evidence was shown for God, that I would accept it. One of his arguments was that Jesus did lots of miracles and there were still people in his day who didn’t believe even though they saw the miracles happening right before their eye.

I love these types of conversations. I always throw them for a loop when I tell Christians like this individual that one of the reasons why I don’t believe is because of the miracles. Many Christians have a hard time understanding this line of thinking.

Think about it in this way, even the Bible says that Satan can do these same types of magic tricks. The Bible repeatedly warns against any kind of magic except for God-magic. So if Satan can do magic tricks and Jesus can do magic tricks, how do magic tricks support the idea that God is real? Come to think of it, Penn & Teller can do magic tricks too without supernatural powers. I once saw them throw a rabbit in a wood chipper… okay bad example.

The thing is that Uri Geller can bend a spoon with his mind right in front of your face, but that is really poor reasoning to conclude that Uri Geller is God in the flesh. Think about it, why would God feel the need to show off his divine powers by bending spoons?
If God was real and was all powerful and could do anything and he really and truly wanted to make his presence known, he wouldn’t need miracles or magic tricks to do it. We would all simply “know” it intuitively. As a point of fact, we don’t.

People are taught religion often times from an early age. If we intuitively “knew” God, than there would be no reason to teach religion, no reason to proselytize, and no reason for missionaries. Either God doesn’t want everyone to know of his existence or he does not exist. It isn’t that I don’t believe despite the miracles, but rather that I don’t believe in part because of the miracles.

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  • Kat

    Even the writers of the bible didn’t see Jesus perform miracles, they weren’t even there..so the bible isn’t much proof of miracles. When an amputee grows his legs back..then I will consider THAT a miracle. Isn’t it funny that God can’t perform “impossible” miracles?

  • http://www.myspace.com/itsahicke Her3tiK

    Don’t forget, intuitive knowledge of God would probably negate the vast amounts of religions that have been recorded, never mind the bickering between the individual denominations.

  • Mike O.

    Excellent points Staks. Many Christians believe that knowledge of God IS intuitive on some levels, but even more baffling are their various explainations about why this does not lead us all to the same faith, eg. choosing not to believe because one would have to cease their sinful lifestyle, blinded and deceived by Satan, etc. Another article perhaps?

  • A-Dizzle

    I always like to point out to Christians that if no one told them about god, they would have no reason to assume there was one.

  • http://www.myspace.com/DD_NU4EVER Diana

    Silly Christians, Gods are for uninvolved dangerous child races…not to insult children

  • matt

    Wow. You make so many inferences based on nothing but opinion it is astounding.

    If God was real and was all powerful and could do anything and he really and truly wanted to make his presence known, he wouldn’t need miracles or magic tricks to do it. We would all simply “know” it intuitively.”

    Interesting….why is it that it is so clear to you that we would simply “know”? Does “logic” dictate this? You are forgetting so many things with these conclusions you are making….

    The fact of the matter is that prophecies were being made hundreds of years before Christ that he would come and do certain things. Some more specific than others….but thats only an editorial note to avoid those annoying digressions were you say that any prophecy can be fulfilled based on interpretation and blah blah….anyways….your forgetting so many things here.

    How do we know anything about God? Who are you to make assertions that contradict the evidence the Bible brings to the plate? Oh yes, I said the Bible is evidence….yes yes I know you disagree…but I still say if you ignore the evidence of the Bible you might as well wipe out all of history…since the historical documentation and concrete evidence supporting the assertions of the Bible are astronomically higher than any other historical or even written document for that matter.

    So I say once again, how do we know anything about God? Should I appeal to the ontological argument here?

    You have such a trite and trivial understanding of miracles….when you speak on these matters it makes me severely question how much you have truly studied scripture or theology. Healing people who have been lame their entire life is merely a “magic trick”? A man who an entire city knew for years and years to be lame, suddenly is seen walking around telling everyone how Jesus healed him…this is a “magic trick”??

    Proclaiming to your followers that you will be beaten and bruised and lay in a tomb for 2 days and rise on the 3rd and actually doing it is a magic trick?

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      Healing the lame, the sick, and the dead are magic tricks, yes. Really good magic tricks, but still they are magic tricks. Sathya Sai Baba does all of these things not 2000 years ago, but TODAY… on YouTube. Faith healers across he country heal the sick and the lame using the magic of faith.

      Also, here is a point of logic. Premise 1: God can do anything that he wants. Premise 2: God wants everyone to know of his existence. Conclusion: therefore God would make everyone to know his existence. As a point of fact, not everyone knows that he exists (I’m living proof). Therefore, the argument is false. So where is the error? Either God can’t do anything he wants or God doesn’t want everyone to know of his existence.

      Miracles do not enter into the picture and shouldn’t enter into the picture. Your statement about needing to fulfill prophecy is just fallacious. God doesn’t NEED to fulfill prophecy for the same reason he doesn’t NEED to do miracles. The very fact that he NEEDS to resort to those things is proof positive that he doesn’t exist.

    • http://www.myspace.com/DD_NU4EVER Diana

      What historical documents have they, that collaborate the bible?

      Have they found hieroglyphs in Egypt that talk about Moses?

      Have they found evidence of a world flood that nearly brought human kind to it’s knees?

      Or how about the ruins of the tower of babel…I mean, a tower that large…surely there must be some evidence.

      Maybe they’ve found some documents in Rome pertaining to the brutal murder of jesus at the hands of his fellow Jews. Surely the public murder of a man claiming to be the son of a god is note worthy, even if Rome was still a pagan nation.

      I’ve never heard of any scientist finding any evidence that the bible is correct on much except when it pertains to the ancient Middle Eastern culture alone. It’s a historical document for them…much like the Egyptian book of the dead is a historical document for the Egyptians.

      It’s just that that is a interesting claim…

      “historical documentation and concrete evidence supporting the assertions of the Bible are astronomically higher than any other historical or even written document for that matter.”

      I would say this statement is drastically wrong. If there were such evidence, as you claim..and no doubt, actually believe, then it would be widely accepted and not some little known facts that you alone, and others who think like you, are privy to. Scientists aren’t bias against religion and neither am I.

      Tell me air is made from rubber and I tell you that you are wrong. Show me proof and I will be astonished, but I will have to believe you.

      You may say that this is not your chore. That I must do the research myself, or that even if you did tell me, that I will not accept this…well, that is a gross assumption. You might have faith in that which there is no evidence of, but you have little faith in your own people, who are standing before you.

      Yes, yes, I’m ignorant wrong blasphemous women and you smile to yourself as you picture me in hell and you with your fifty virgins…I mean in heaven, heaven…