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A Fool Says Out Loud that they have an Imaginary Friend

Many times when I am in a conversation with a Christian, they will end the conversation with the Biblical claim that “The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.” –Psalms 14:1. The Christian concludes that if someone lacks the belief in a god therefore they must be a fool.

This is one of the many conversation stoppers that Christians use. In my opinion it is no better than sticking ones fingers in one’s ears and yelling, “lalalalala” over and over again. Aside from the fact that his is childish behavior, it also shows a remarkable insecurity in one’s beliefs. The Christians who use this conversation stopper clearly are afraid of actual conversation. The defense for the concept of a deity is so weak on its own and then when Christians start to argue for their particular deity, it just gets embarrassing.

I can’t really blame Christians too much for not wanting to actually have to present any evidence for their claims. Thinking about the claims that they make is not something that is conducive to blind belief. So while most Christians love talking about their beliefs and their faith, when they start to encounter thought provoking questions, it is no wonder that they resort to the old Psalm 14:1.

It is much easier to simply make claims and assert that they are “The Truth” without having to actually think about those claims or back them up with actual evidence. Could you imagine if everyone simply asserted ridiculous claims as Truth? What if scientists and doctors did that?

The real truth is that only fools claim truth without presenting evidence while at the same time trying to stop the conversation through name-calling. Only a fool would assert a ridiculous claim without any valid reasoning.

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  • http://nutsandreasons.blogspot.com/ quedula

    Very good piece. I’m going to recommend you on my blog.

  • 0day_Hacker

    How about you start making a bigger movement besides this blog. You have great stories why not get more public fame. Go start blogs on numerous websites ie: Cnn.com <—

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      Thank you for the complement. I would love to move to a more public forum, but it isn’t as easy as it looks. I do post comments on some of the news stories on news sites, but that hasn’t gotten me anywhere. So I am open to suggestions.

  • ProgRockGirl

    “The fool hath said in his heart there is no god”.
    Whatever…I say a fool doesn’t go to a doctor b/c he thinks his imaginary friend will protect him.

  • Tomkinson

    The only problem with your latest travesty of reasoning is that many atheists and agnostics including Shaun might agree that “The fool hath said in his heart there is no god” for “there is no god” is a dogmatic and more or less indefensible position. Even Dawkins rates his skepticism as a 6 out of 7.

    Secondly since the psalm can be read as expressing the emotional as opposed to logical aspect of belief and it wouldn’t be the kind of sentiment one would defend with argument. In fairness the heart was believed to be the seat of intelligence so it might depend on translation.

    Either way such bigoted pablum hardly merits wider exposure. As an atheist I’m quite happy this cliched Christian-hating Jew toils in obscurity.

    • existential blues

      The fool hath said in his heart that I’m not your daddy, because she seduced me when I was ten, and I made you.

      Do YOU understand the difference between epistemology and ontology? It seems that few do. As an “atheist”, you sound quite confused. Or somewhat fake.

    • http://www.myspace.com/DD_NU4EVER Diana

      Really, are you an Atheist? You write like a fake. Even an Atheist that disagrees with Staks shows him respect and acknowledges his points as valid…you seem only interested in belittling him.

      Even if the quote is taken out of context, it’s not, the message is the same. Christians think we are foolish for not believing in their ancient deity and we think they are foolish or worse for blindingly living by the archaic and in most cases detrimental writings of ancient people

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      T, that isn’t how a Christian is using this verse. You are being dishonest in your criticism and you know it. Then you name call to stop conversation too, that is why you have no credibility.

  • http://vraiefiction.blogspot.com/ Guillaume

    Yep, that quote never fails to irritate me to no end. That is such a silly line anyway, as it just labels the unbeliever as fool without actually defending your point with intelligent, factual arguments. It is intelelctually cowardly, at best.

  • http://vraiefiction.blogspot.com/ Guillaume

    Yep, that quote never fails to irritate me to no end. That is such a silly line anyway, as it just labels the unbeliever as fool without actually defending your point with intelligent, factual arguments. It is intellectually cowardly, at best.

  • Tomkinson

    Staks how do you know how a Christian is using this verse? You make a straw man case out of it by claiming it says something that the surrounding text doesn’t support and by equating the concept of God with ‘imaginary friend.’

    That’s the point you and the two posters before you miss entirely. The psalm is about neither epistemology nor ontology and yes I know the difference. Were their really that many atheists running around in ancient Judea to merit a mention? Its you Staks that are transplanting it as some Christians admittedly do. But it can easily be dishonestly recast from the other direction as I did.

    The idea that I’m confused or a fake because I don’t throw a tantrum whenever someone expresses their religiosity to me even in a way that might be considered offensive is just stupid. I’m not offended by Christian bigots because I have zero respect for their intelligence or belief system. I’ve said before, a Christian calling me a fool bothers me no more than a petulant child calling me a poopy-head. On the other hand the viewpoints of the likes of Staks are an unfair characterization of rational atheists like myself so I do criticize him.

    But name-calling thats ridiculous (well this time). You are Jewish no? And no objective analysis of your blog can say you hate all religion equally. You claim Christianity is worse than Islam and are essentially silent when it comes to Judaism which is why a left-winger like you made no post about Israel’s intervention in Gaza last January or the arrest of Rabbis in NJ last week. Were these Christian controversies surely they would have been targets for your venom.

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      T – First no one is arguing the context of the verse in relation to the Bible. I am talking about the context of the CONVERSATIONS that I have with particular Christians who use this verse in that particular way. I made that clear in the blog. Second, you claim I am a bigot, but you say pretty much the same thing when you say, “I’m not offended by Christian bigots because I have zero respect for their intelligence or belief system.” You are calling all Christians bigots and stupid. That is actually much more than I have said or even would say. I have no problem with Christians as people, I just have issue with their ideas and beliefs. Third, it is like I said to the Orthodox girl, I am not a believer in the Jewish religion. So it really depends on what you mean by “Jewish.” Besides, I am not Christian-hating, I just have issue with Christian beliefs not the people who hold them. Forth, You must have not gotten to the blog I just did on Orthodox Judaism. Like I have continually stated before, I have issue with all the Abrahamic religions, but I still think that Christianity is the most dangerous and the religion that I am confronted with most often and that is why I talk about Christianity more than the other two. I didn’t talk about Gaza or the Rabbi in Jersey because they don’t interest me as much as other topics do. By your reasoning you must hate everyone because you haven’t talked about anything. For the record, there are plenty of Christian controversies that I don’t talk about. I didn’t write a blog about the reverend who married a teen, or the one who just got arrested for tax evasion. Almost daily there are priests getting arrested for child abuse and mega-church ministers having gay sex. I also don’t talk about all the cases in which religious parents prayed for a child instead of taking the child to a doctor. Or all the instances where some Christian murders their child or children because they claim God wanted it or that a demon possessed them. If I hate Christians so much why do I not blog about those things all the time. They would be a non-stop blog-fest. Why do you hate atheists so much T? I know you are an atheist, which just shows that you hate yourself too. Why am I the target of your venom?

    • http://www.myspace.com/rothtalltales Tralf

      How can he be a Jewish atheist? One must believe in and follow the Old Testament, in some form, to be truly Jewish. Religion is not blood born, even if some choose to act as such. Consider that one can convert to Judaism. That fact alone completely undercuts the bloodlines argument, and your ad hominem attacks completely undercuts your relevance as a “thinker” on any subject besides the Jerry Springer Show.

      Randy

      • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

        for the record, some forms of Orthodox Judaism don’t accept converts. To them, bloodlines are very important. Plus, there is also a Jewish culture which is not religious and some people claim to be Jewish culturally and yet reject the Jewish religion. That is where I think the confusion comes in.

  • Tomkinson

    To Tralf, Jewishness is both an ethnicity (actually ethnicities) and a religion & Stak’s certainly knows the difference & seems to agree. Now you can go back to watching the Jerry Springer show.

    Saying that I don’t respect the intelligence or beliefs of people who say “all non-Christians are fools especially atheists” is no more bigoted than saying one doesn’t respect the beliefs or intelligence of blacks that say all whites are devils. I don’t respect them but I don’t have a blog dedicated to attacking them either.

    Your criticisms are much broader. And it does seem to ignore non-Christianity far too often. If a christian says in a conversation “I’ll pray for you” you get all bent out of shape but if a Jew says “Talk to your cousin he’ll re-convert you” you remain cordial and describe it as an interesting conversation. The idea that Islam is less dangerous than Christianity is patently ridiculous. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Stooping to the level of an ignorant Christian by ignoring context is exactly why I don’t like your brand of atheism. The examples of stories you didn’t write are not national or important as the ones I cited are. You repeatedly make unsupportable assertions about Christians like they are the source of antisemitism. If that’s true why is the less Christian political party much more likely to blame Jews for the financial crisis? http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra_margalit.php

    The idea that I hate everyone because I “don’t talk about anyone” is a non-sequitur. My reasoning was you rarely bash Jews therefore you must think they are OK but you always bash Christians therefore you detest them. Thus it follows that by my reasoning I must think everybody is more or less OK since I rarely bash anyone. Which is not entirely true but its more accurate than your characterization. I expect better logical reasoning from someone with a Masters in philosophy who claims to like Wittgenstein.

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      If you hate my blog so much, why do you spend so much time reading it? You claim that you don’t respect Christians as intelligent when they make such a statement, but isn’t that bigoted? There are some very smart Christians who make such statements. Just because a Christian makes a stupid statement doesn’t make the Christian stupid. I criticize the statement while you criticize the person. I think you go much further than I have or would. I will call the statement stupid, but you go as far as calling the person stupid. I think that is a stupid assertion to make on your part. It is in fact a bigoted statement to make.

      Like I said before, just because I don’t talk about something doesn’t mean I “must” approve of it. That is a ridiculous assumption to make. There are lots of things that I don’t talk about. There are lots of things that you don’t talk about. That doesn’t mean that you must approve of all the things you don’t talk about. My blog generally focuses on Christianity because whose are the people I encounter on a daily basis. When I encounter Orthodox Jews, I discuss Orthodox Jews. Then you turn around and claim that I hate Christians because I talked about a religion other than Christianity? That’s just stupid.

      While I agree that Islam is the more violent religion, I laid out my argument for why I think it is less dangerous that Christianity in the long run.

      You missed the context of what I was talking about. The issue is not what that verse means or could mean, I was how some Christians use that verse. That was the issue I was discussing and you ignored. I was very particular in my statement.

      I don’t have a “brand of atheism” and I don’t even know what that means. The stories that I didn’t write were national stories just as national (if not more so) than the Jersey Rabbi. But the fact is that had I written about the Jersey Rabbi, you would have called me antisemitic or something. You hate yourself and you project that hate on to me as an atheist and so you would have criticized me no matter what I say. That is why your opinion is not taken seriously by anyone.

      Then you make the ridiculous statement that all Democrats hate Jews and blame Jews for financial crisis. That is just absurd. I think you are also envious that I have a degree. You are just a bitter drunk with nothing to do and no one who cares.

  • Tomkinson

    1. Saying you don’t respect someone’s intelligence is not the same as saying they are stupid. Do you not understand what respect means?

    2. You DO treat Christians more harshly than you do others as I’ll show below.

    3. On virtually every factor that you say makes Christianity more dangerous than Islam holds even stronger within Islam. On top of that you admit Islam is more dangerous. If a white guy and a black guy do the same action but in your mind it only reflects badly on the black guy, you’re a racist.

    4. The issue is you debasing atheism by rendering it AT THE LEVEL of the naive Christian. And yes that is a brand of atheism.

    5. Perhaps the Jersey ‘Rabbis’ (plural) may not have warranted your attention I certainly would not have called you an antisemite. Gaza should have gotten your attention. There is not even an attempt at balance.

    6. Anyone can read above that I certainly did not say “all Democrats hate Jews and blame Jews for financial crisis”, this is a perfect example of how you grossly mischaracterize every topic you cover and if anyone takes you seriously after reading that statement then I have no respect for their intelligence either.

    7. I have a bachelors degree in physics and a masters in applied mathematics, no I don’t have a degree in philosophy but I would be more than willing to contest you on any topic of western philosophy and would wager a week’s pay I know vastly more about analytical philosophy and how to use it than you do.

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      1. I must be stupid then, because I don’t see the difference between not respecting someone’s intelligence and saying they are stupid. That seems the same to me. So why don’t you enlighten us on the difference.
      2. Yes, I do because those are the people are am confronted with day in and day out. I said that multiple times. I also consider Christianity to be a more dangerous religion than all the others. So what is your point?
      3. No, I did not admit that Islam is more dangerous. I admitted that Islam is more violent. You are missed the whole point of that particular blog. While the two religions may hold similar positions on issues, one is in the position of power to influence much more of humanity on a more covert level. Islam is more flashy, but Christianity does more damage. I am sorry I have to re-explain that blog to you. I hate doing that. If you want to discuss that topic again, please do it on that blog page. And for the record, it is analogous to a white collar crime vs. a street crime, not a black man vs. a white man thing. But again, you will argue with me on anything, so it really doesn’t matter what I say.
      4. I must be stupid again, because I have no idea what you are talking about. I also am surprised that you call all Christians naive.
      5. Sure you would have. The fact is that this is my blog and I write about what I am confronted with not what you think I should talk about. I am not the nightly news. Why should I talk about Gaza? Maybe I will at some point, but I have no interest in doing so right now. there are lots of stories that I don’t talk about. That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about them or that I hate those people or some other people. That is the worst logic I have ever heard and you know it. But you are so self-absorbed that you can’t admit that you are acting childish.
      6. You blamed Democrats for blaming Jews for the financial crisis. You didn’t qualify that with “some” or “many.” Personally, I wouldn’t take that to mean that you meant “all,” but you and others have called me out for not qualifying “some” or “many” so don’t be a hypocrite and take your licks. I have become very conscious of generalizations because of people assuming them when qualifiers are not there. I am simply illustrating a point in a sarcastic manner.
      7. I have no reason to get in a pissing match with drunk people. Maybe you are just high, I don’t know, but whatever you are drinking or smoking, I am not interested. No one respects you or your opinions, so what would be the point?

  • Tomkinson

    1. To respect something is to afford it some kind of esteem. To not respect something is to withhold or not afford any kind of esteem for it. It does not mean that you hate it or think it is worthless or even sub-par. But this should be obvious to anyone.

    2.If you are ‘confronted’ day in and day out thats because you choose to be a self-appointed victim rather than an adult.

    3. There are about as many Muslims as Christians in the world with Muslims being the far more devoted group. Furthermore they are able to dramatically impact the non-Muslim countries which you deem more powerful like drawing the U.S. into Iraq and Afghanistan. Since everything you say makes Christianity dangerous holds true for Islam but Islam is more VIOLENT you expose your bigotry. Thus your argument which was weak to begin with unravels with the slightest analysis. I never said it was White collar/blue collar thing you attempt again to obfuscate the point.

    4. You are trying to make atheism into a another self-appointed victim group that uses disingenuous and specious arguments to make its cases just like some of the more loony activist Christians. And you know damn well I didn’t say ‘all’ Christians are naive since you have trouble with basic semantics I didn’t just say ‘all’ Christians are loony either.

    5. Your logic and coverage speaks for itself. I’m glad I’m making copies of your ‘arguments’.

    6. I didn’t blame anyone for anything. According to a non-partisan poll by a respected journal more Democrats blame Jews for the financial crisis than Republicans. Read the link-if you can understand a pie chart. The data qualifies itself.

    7. I’ve never posted to your blog drunk but if you choose to use that as an excuse than stop making false charges that I’m envious, self-hating, bitter, or drunk.

    • http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

      All of your arguments are personal attacks which have little to nothing to do with the topic. You always do this and that is why no one takes you seriously.
      1. This is just retarded that I even have to argue this. The opposite of smart is dumb. So if you say someone isn’t smart, you are calling them dumb. If you don’t have respect for group of people’s intelligence, you are claiming disrespect for their intelligence. Let me put it this way, your comments were not smart.
      2. This is just a bullshit attempt to blame victims for being victims. Atheism is a response to theism. If there weren’t theists, no one would claim to be atheists. The fact is that atheist groups form as a response to religious discrimination. When I lived in North Jersey (where I never encountered fundamentalist religious believers) there was no need to call myself an atheist. It wasn’t must of an issue (there was still a small issue, but not much). One thing that I think is very funny is that you claim that I play the victim card, and then you claim that atheists of “my brand” are victimizing you. It really is comical. You must be drunk when you write these things and if not, just say you are, because it would be better for your reputation if you were.
      3. You still don’t understand that argument? While I know many atheists who disagree with me on this, they at least understand where I am coming from. I won’t comment on this any further here. If you want to re-read that blog and comment further there, fine.
      4. See number 2, this is getting redundant.
      5. more personal attacks. I am glad you are making copies to, take it to a lawyer. Are you a fucking stalker now? Great just what I need a drunken stalker who copies everything I say and hangs it on his wall around a bunch of candles.
      6. Okay, I am sure all the Democrats hate the Jews despite the fact that most Jews are Democrats, lol.
      7. I really don’t believe you. I think you are probably drunk right now. You also seem to be a very self-hating individual who projects his hate onto other people. Bitter? you are copying everything I write in your journal or whatever. Don’t you have an actual life? You are way past bitter and should definitely consider seeking professional help. You can’t even see sarcasm or humor in any of the arguments. You are so uptight you are about to snap and my blogs are all over your room probably with darts stuck to them. Relax and enjoy your life a little.

      • http://www.myspace.com/rothtalltales Tralf

        Staks:

        You have a fanatic on your hands, a fanatic who thinks you need to condemn Jews and Muslims more than Christians despite the fact that Christianity in the prevalent faith in the USA, not Judaism or Islam. I get it. It’s a matter of picking your battles, and conveying personal experience. I for one have never had a Jew or Muslim attempt to proselytize me. Christians, on the other hand, dump pamphlets on my stoop every few months despite a sign which reads: RELIGIOUS GROUPS NOT WELCOME

        Randy

        PS I won’t address him directly again, since he obviously didn’t feel the need to read my previous post, and instead hurled the much deserved insult I aimed at him back at me, which is about as creative as hurling one’s feces. In other words, I leave shit throwers and other low thinkers to their own small-minded devices.

  • DanOhBrian

    Christians don’t believe they were put on a certain continent by chance. God didn’t roll the dice and place people accordingly. God placed each person in their circumstances and had a purpose for doing so.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      So you are claiming that some people are predestined to be tortured for all eternity in Hell?

      • DanOhBrian

        No. People make their own choices.