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  • Copyleft

    The more hateful among them would also need a box of tissues handy… for a different reason. But really, many Christians are perfectly happy to allegedly ‘believe’ in something they’ve never read, because the dogma of their faith really doesn’t matter to them. As long as they hear some nice inspiring messages about love and faith from a pulpit every week, that’s good enough for them. Plus the free coffee and donuts afterward. That’s the reality of ‘faith’ for the majority of American believers–happy talk, some music, and eating together. And woe be to the atheist who threatens these sacred things!

    • Jeffrosaffro

      I’ve never required a tissue? but I think I get your humor-jab
      I agree that it’s unreasonable to believe something never seen for oneself.
      Curious – Are you saying that all “christians” live in this box you’ve created?

      All “christians” believe what now? How can they ALL believe the same thing
      ONLY God’s Truth is 100% Truth. Our Creator is Who Knows Everything, so
      What’s going on with your statements about ALL “christians” thinking the same?

      Also, I’m not ritualistic friend, and I don’t recall being to a “pulpit” as you put it in years.
      My Truth comes from my Father, God.
      And really, most everyone I’ve know to call themself a “christian” is far more than you’ve described. That being said, I do agree that there is a lot of dogma and ritual and expectation and…
      AND ultimately what it boils down to is a grand deception through organized religion.
      God is against religion / sin / tree of knowledge of good and evil.
      God told us from the get-go, eat from the tree of life, which is Christ.

      ALL so-called “christians” are more individual than you suggest, but I do agree that organized religion is NOT what God wants for us and it tends to disempower sheeple NOT in every brick and mortar bldg called a “church” necessarily, but in many for sure… lots of deception.

      Christian – means a follower of Christ, and
      Church – means all believers in the body of Christ, so
      “christians” and Christians are NOT all the same my friend, and you are correct that
      NOT all “christians” see the bigger picture, but a true Christian (Christ Follower) is led by the Holy Spirit and is an instrument of God’s Will.

      You’re right about the majority of American believers, but NOT a true believer.

  • http://www.atheistrev.com/ vjack

    I have grown tired of Christians assuming I’ve never read their bible (I have) and that if I would do so, I’d miraculously come to agree with them on every bit of it.

    • Jeffrosaffro

      don’t get too tired! you still have to have energy to live don’t you?

      I’ll help you out if your energy level is tied up in what others think:
      I believe you have probably read the bible, and I don’t know what

      your point was in making your statement, but TRUTH is absolute.
      So, if a so-called “christian” thinks they hold Truth, that’s great, but
      if 2 or more hold differing opinions of what that truth is, then it becomes
      very apparent that these people don’t hold absolute TRUTH in their hearts.

      There is a 1% deception that has wiggled it’s way into the perception.

      God’s Truth is 100% though, and God’s Light shines out the darkness of our ignorance

      if we would but diligently seek the Truth. The problem that many have though, is in the 1% that THEY CHOOSE. The heart is truly like deep waters… who knows it’s depths?

      oh yeah, our Creator

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        I live my life fully because this is the only life I have. You can feel free to waste your life anyway you like since you believe (falsely) that you have an eternity (which is a pretty long time… much longer than you probably realize). You should check out some of my other articles and blog posts. Someday, probably not today or tomorrow, but someday you will realize just how much of your only life you have wasted on this crap. I trying to save the rest of your life so that you can enjoy it before it is gone.

        • Jeffrosaffro

          That’s awesome you try to live your life fully.

          I don’t want to waste my life, but you’re right that I’m free to do so.

          Eternity… “longer than you realize” interesting perspective.
          I’ve calculated with infinity while working calculus equations, but that’s just a number approaching infinity isn’t it, and our finite minds haven’t come to grasp the infinity of eternity the way God knows it.

          I guarantee you it is longer than I can fathom, but to say I don’t realize this is absurd. I realize quite clearly that I have no concept of eternity.
          No man does as we are finite in this life as you pointed out, just as God says very plainly to each and every one of us… ONE LIFE TO LIVE

          Thanks for inviting me to read more of your articles and blog posts.

          You have made it clear that your articles are to be trusted, but you said The Bible is “crap”. thanks for making this distinction.

          My Bible is crap, but if I want to actually get something out of life, then your articles hold life for me. Thanks for sharing. I don’t want to miss out on life, so hopefully your articles and blog will remain for all of eternity (or at least until the end of my life as I know it) that way I can be happy in your truth Dangerous Talk.

          God’s Truth is crap and Dangerous Talk Truth is Life!!!

          I’m so thankful to finally have the TRUTH – Thanks Dangerous! :) oops was I jabbin atcha a bit there?
          That is waht you said though isn’t it???
          I’ll definitely read more, but you have yet to present even a single truth to me. Where is your Truth??? All you’ve done is mudsling like those retarded people so many people flock to in our so-called government. God’s Truth sets a man free. I know Truth from personal experience, and I have walked about every sort of walk a man can walk. I know, because I have rebelled, and being a deep thinker, and very critical, I’ve very meticulously dissected so-called knowledge, and I know very well when I am being presented Truth.

          oops. I guess you would say “crap” not Truth as I think, but crap

          once again, for like the 5th time or so, can you give 1 example?

          just 1?

          1 simple example of my crap, cuz I don’t want to hang onto crap
          and also
          1 simple example of your truth, cuz you said it will give me life.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            5 is > than 1. I gave 5 examples in the article. Therefore I gave you at least 1 example.

            • Jeffrosaffro

              Your examples are empty, and your examples are not based on anything in God’s Word at all. You have an article that is based out of ignorance and deception <– the delusion you've accused me of.

              You seem like someone stumbling around in a dark closet.
              You've been in there for so long, that when someone flips on the light switch, it stings your eyes and it blinds you… and you turn the lights off once again. Your darkness feels comfortable now doesn't it?

              So what's next?
              Do you require that I dissect each of your examples for you???
              You have suggested to my self that I study – I would suggest you take your own advice, but IF you're too lazy or too blinded or whatever, and if you're truly open to TRUTH, then I will be more than happy to dissect your flimsy article. <–no offense intended pride

  • http://twitter.com/EnigmaBabylon Enigmatic Babylonian

    The Bible isn’t really boring, though you have to understand a lot more about the history and theology of people at the time to make much sense of it. I mean, if you don’t want to read the Bible, what do I care – but everything you like to heap onto the Bible is found in the Illiad. I wish Humanists would stop their retarded feud with Christians, since you’re just clones of one another. I am certain that ‘God’ isn’t real, but I am also certain the Humanism is a crackpot crypto-Christian religion which is responsible for far more murder and rapine than all religious conflicts combined. Stop bombing people for Dumbocracy and maybe I’ll give a shit when you whine about Jesus nuts.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      What the fuck are you taking about?

      • Jeffrosaffro

        What are either of you talking about?

        Enigmatic has actually said something though, and
        Enigmatic has very specifically made a point, even if I disagree with part of it.
        You have yet to do that, and I would love to hear your point, so
        Answer your own question please:
        What are you “taking” about?

        I agree many of your words though, Enigmatic, and I appreciate the way you’ve dissected the deeper nature of what’s really going on between these seemingly “different” b.s. (belief systems). I disagree with you on one major point, and that’s okay, but I differ where I would instead say to you that God is very real.

    • Jeffrosaffro

      “Dumbocracy” <— I love that! and you're spot on too.
      Many have misunderstood many a thing for their own deception in all they once chose.
      God is NOT religion though; it seems many people associate "Christianity" or whatever else with God's Holy Word. This is a LIE. God is NOT into religion, as religion just like google, holds deception just as snugly as it would present the Truth, and

      If we make a casserole, we wouldn't mix a 1% turd of a lie in with the life giving food. God's Word is 100% Truth (an awesome casserole) / BUT religion mixes in a 1% turd.
      So does government, hollywood, etc… and I def agree that most "christians" who are living the LIE of religions are vastly deluded by that smelly turd.

      One question though friend: Are you saying we are all clones?
      And If so, a second question: Where did the clones come from? <—and ultimately your answer needs to go somewhere like a real root, because to say that we all are just here because of a cloning experiment still won't get us to the root will it.

      We have an intelligent Creator, and we are created in God's image

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        The hilarity:

        Christianity isn’t a religion.

        I bet you think atheism is a religion though. It looks like you have come to the correct realization that religion is a bad thing. Now you just have to be honest with your self and realize that you are religious.
        God’s Word is 100% Truth
        Wow! ROTFLMSO

        • Jeffrosaffro

          :)
          “not a religion”? Religion is in the eye of the beholder
          Christianity is NOT religion to me, but “christianity” is religion to some
          That being said, I see where many such as yourself have a confused misperception which pervades, perhaps due to “christians” who followed man’s misperceptions of God as opposed to Christians who follow Christ.

          I have a martial arts class to go teach right now, and though I see your thinly veiled ignorance hiding behind a web of delusion and sarcasm, I will take more of my time to further respond as I find the time, but

          Please understand that sarcasm isn’t really very friendly. I can surely oust you if I choose, but wouldn’t that be “hateful” of me to respond to your name-calling and sarcasm with my own ways of verbal retaliation?

          I would enjoy an intelligent friendly conversation though for sure, but
          to mince words with me or test my ability to be hateful is silly.

          I’ve very fully shown just how hateful, ignorant, and unfaithful I can be, and I choose to embrace what God tells me Truth is, because Now I can respond to your “hate” with Love and Patience not because of something I think I know, but because of the Spirit of the Lord Who indwells my spirit.

          Friend, I have known so many walks, and have tried out various ideologies, etc… Understand that I speak with Truth, and the delusion or whatever you would think you’re pointing the finger at is actually found in the direction of your remaining fingers which seem to point where??? You do NOT need the counseling you suggested however; do you NOT know first off about the delusions of psychology. I’ve received letters of commendations from deans of universities, professors, etc…, but really, psychology is NOT truth, and it will leave a person with no real solution or truth.

          I know of that which I would speak, and I will further discuss this with you if that is your desire, because I’m willing to share God’s Truth, but you will be doing very well to take a pause so that you can consider the quality of the foundation on which you’ve stacked your words… name-calling, mocking others, etc…

          just sayin’ for your own enjoyment of the life you said you fully live

          Name calling only takes away from “fullness” of life.

          Humor is wonderful, but if it is at someone else’s expense, then you ultimately will only hurt yourself.

          Take a pause, reflect, flip that light switch on for a few or something.
          Your eyes will adjust to the Light, and it will be okay :)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            As my time is short and you aren’t saying anything I haven’t already heard and written about, I’m just going to refer you to my Atheism 101 section. The link is at the top of the page. Check it out.

            • Jeffrosaffro

              Okay. Are you sure you want me to read and respond to another one of your articles??? If I dissect and respond to another, then you will lose yet more credibility <—not that any is apparent right now, but…

              Understand though, I care about you as a person, and I know that I've had very similar words as yours when I was younger and trapped in a lie, so I'm just trying to share what seems to be God's Truth the way I would want it revealed to my self if I were your self cuz that's what I would want for my self.

              I don't care about being right, I just love the Truth! :)

              • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

                Oh please, I insist. I think your comments will prove my points. Moderate Christians always criticize me for making up people like you. You’re my evidence that people like you actually exist.

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        No idea what you are talking about with clones.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Wow. First, the fact that I find the Bible boring is subjective. It is a matter of taste. Although, I do question your taste when you claim that all genealogy in the Bible is not boring. Second, the Iliad is far more entertaining and isn’t half as violent as the Bible. Are there immoral things in the Iliad? Sure, but no one today is using the Iliad to justify laws that attack human dignity. Finally, I don’t think you know what humanism is.

  • Nat

    I was given my study Bible on Valentine’s Day in 2000. I finished it two days before Christmas. When I completed it my husband asked me what I thought. I said it was the story of man’s relationship with God. That’s it. I still couldn’t allow myself to believe that God loved me too. Now 2013, and a tremendous amount of studying later (you see, I’m think headed), I believe God loves me. My job is to spread the light inside of me to others. Some days I fail miserably at it, but am always grateful for another day to get it right when I awake in the morning. My New King James Version is very well written. What keeps me reading and studying is the fact that it never ceases to be teaching me how to be a better person. I am truly humbled by it.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Yeah, the Bible sets such a great moral example like when God has two bears violently kill a bunch of kids for insulting a bald priest. Or when God orders Abraham to murder his own son just for shits and giggles. Oh and then there was that time when Jesus advocated plucking out your eyes and chopping off your hands. So humbling. lol.

      • Nat

        Hate has a way of killing your heart.
        Be careful not to let that happen.
        God bless.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          I agree that hate has a way of killing your heart and other people’s hearts as well. That is why I stand up against hate. That is why I stand up and speak out against the hate of the Bible and of Christianity.

          Why would I bless a deity that hates all humanity? If your God actually existed, I would stand up against his hate. But he doesn’t exist. Only hateful Christians exist, so I have to stand up against the hate and bigotry of Christianity.

          • Nat

            And yet…
            Out of the two of us, which one is filled with hate?

            • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

              You.

              • Jeffrosaffro

                I don’t see your truth Dangerous
                All I see is your darkness / lies.

                When did Nat say anything out of the way?
                And yet you have called Nat hateful…
                Nat has shown the opposite of hate through good word-choice
                You, on the other hand, have demonstrated hate through your deluded word-choice evidenced in the name-calling.

                And really, your perspective is so narrow and obviously skewed that I find it very difficult to fathom how anyone in their right mind could even hear your point of view, regardless of their own.

                ALL “christians”? REally?

                ALL skateboarders know the same tricks too huh?
                What about all dieticians? Do they all know the same stuff?
                What about all prostitutes? Do they all do the same things?
                What about all politicians? Do they all whore themselves out too?

                Where is your reasoning ability???
                “If your God actually existed, I would stand up against his hate.”
                If God…, you would do what???
                How on earth could you stand against God (if god…)
                How??? You’re an idiot maybe idk, but that’s absurd.
                If you believed that God existed, then how could you stand against our Creator – You can, but you’ll fail
                and why would our Creator not know what the Truth really is?

                And what is it you said you’d do anyway????
                Make up your mind, cuz you said you’d bless a deity, and then you said you’d stand up against his hate”

                You are very grossly deceived my friend, and I wish nothing but God’s Truth for your self and my self and for anyone else’s self who wants it, but maybe you don’t really want it…?

                How can you say Nat is hateful?
                Can you please give me one example of a hateful fruit from Nat…

          • Jeffrosaffro

            Beautiful example of a 1% lie. 99% truth seems to be there “I agree that hate has a way of killing your heart and…” you say you “stand up against hate”, but how can hate stand against it’s own self? Sounds confusing, & confusion is a fruit of deception & is a LIE.

            The Bible (God’s Holy Word) is 100% TRUTH; whether you understand it yet or not, & there is no 1% lie mixed in either.

            Deception has led you to believe that God hates us???

            God hates sin! BUT God does NOT hate “humanity”.
            What part of your Bible tells you that God hates us???

            and how can you bless a “deity” anyway? who are you?
            and also, God is not a “deity”, God is our Creator, and is I AM.

            So, what you have said is rooted in deception & here is just one ramification of your lie: You said, “I would stand up against his hate.”

            So, The Bible tells us that God hates sin, so if God’s hate is for sin, then what you have said, “I would stand up against” (hating sin).
            Look at your words, because you are living a lie which has led to you ultimately hating the act of hating a sin.

            Heres my take on God’s Truth:
            I hate sin because it destroys life, & I love people, so I don’t want to see a person’s life become any less than what God intended it to be.

            I do agree with you that there are many pagan traditions and much deception running rampant amongst so-called believers (christians), but regardless of who is deceived by what, it would be absolutely ridiculous for me to say ALL skateboarders know the same tricks, or ALL teachers are good teachers, etc… also true of “christians”.
            There is a lot of confusion in the world today, especially amongst “christians”, but to follow God’s Will / Christ’s Will / Holy Spirit… :D

            I am Christian (Christ Follower) = Christ is God, so I Follow God’s Will
            I go to my Creator for direction, because that is what makes life best!

            Don’t go to a tavern for work on your watch, go to the watch maker.

            • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

              The hate and crazy are strong with you my friend. I would strongly recommend professional help.

              • Jeffrosaffro

                :D LOL!!! “professional help” lol

                If only you understood how foolish your words actually are…
                Even if an individual required what you refer to as “pro help”,

                I feel like you have a gross misperception of where that lay.

                This is very much like your beliefs in other arenas discussed.
                You seem to be misinformed and deluded on many levels, and
                I find this very interesting, because you are a perfect example of…

                …the delusional mind controlled puppets that be,
                in the darkness… bewildered lost souls long to be?

      • Jeffrosaffro

        :) Your response is interesting friend.
        It seems you are speaking out of ignorance (not saying you’re stupid btw), but
        we’re all ignorant of many things… I’m ignorant of the finer points to building rocket ships for instance – I am no rocket scientist, so I am ignorant about it.

        Would you like to try to take off for the moon in a rocket ship I would build?
        I sure hope I got the fuel mixture right!!!

        I don’t want to blow you up for my ignorance, so I’m NOT going to tell you how a rocket ship is built, and if I try to build one based on my ignorance, then I would certainly NOT want you to try it out, cuz you might get blown up! :)

        The examples you give are very off, and your words have demonstrated a lack of understanding that is generally referred to as “ignorance”. It’s okay. :)

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Don’t mistake sarcasm for ignorance. You seem quite ignorant about what the Bible actually says. I suggest reading it.

          • Jeffrosaffro

            You may have read a couple things idk, but your ignorance is vast and is evidenced in your article, your responses, and it resides in that very darkness you seem to hold soo dear.

            Interesting you consider me ignorant – I’ve actually spoken Truths, while you have simply “slung mud”, name called, made fun of, etc… Truth has a tendency to be very helpful to people, and your sarcasm and negativity are the exact opposite of helpful, so how is it you hold Truth exactly?

            You have yet to tell me exactly what it is I am ignorant about, or how what I think is “crap”, or how I’m apparently “deluded” according to u

            I see your sarcasm for sure, but I see ignorance behind that, and I see fear the root of your pride’s illusion, and behind that lay a lie, and behind the lie, the devil… This is your rooting, and it seems flimsy.

            Now, which of your points exactly do you need me to help you understand better, because I’m not here to be right.
            I’m just all about TRUTH, and I have taken my time to respond here today, because your deceptions are ridiculous and will do you no good.

            So, if you are open to learning real Truth, then I will be more than happy to further share knowledge, so that we can both come to a better understanding of what Truth really is,

            But if you would attempt mockery, name-calling, etc… then you will ultimately waste your own time, and I don’t want to see you wasting the life you claim to be “living to the fullest” in your article’s “truth”

            Face to face is so much better.

            Would you call me an asshole to my face?
            And if so, what will that do for the sake of our conversation?

            Most people would allow pride to get in the way of reason, and they would errantly take offense to your delusive words / name-calling.

            Luckily I see through the b.s., but I bet you would speak to me very differently if we were standing face to face with eachother right now.

            Is there a concept you would like to discuss further?

  • Justpassingthrough

    Actually if you study the bible, you’ll find that the Old Testament prophecies match up perfectly with the 4 gospels. They were written over thousands of years by multiple prophets & Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies except the ones about his second coming. I do agree there is a lot of morbid stories. But I do know that it is humanly impossible to fulfill over 40 prophecies from over 2000 years before from multiple prophets by one man. I heard someone say once ” either Jesus is truly the son of God or the greatest con man to exist” hence were continuing to argue it- when will people finally give in and accept He is God & the bible is true? When will people finally put their pride away and confess He is Lord? It’s not about it being “interesting” or “a perfect fairy tale” it’s about it’s truth, and the story of love He has for us… They have ears to hear & eyes to see but they are blind & deaf. Your pride is the reason you can’t understand.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      There are no Messianic prophecies in the OT!

      • Jeffrosaffro

        You have no Truth on which to stand friend.
        Justpassingthrough spoke Truth, and I love hearing Truth

        NOT my pride-based personal agenda truth — cuz that’s NOT Truth.
        I try to disprove God’s Truth when people challenge my self or the Bible, and I love how God’s Truth is a powerful Light that can eradicate the darkness/LIE>

        You can point the finger at so many things, but ultimately all I’ve seen you point the finger at is man (humankind) & the choice that God has given each and every one of us since the beginning. God doesn’t hate you, but God does hate the sin that can destroy you… tree of life vs. tree of knowledge of good&evil

        God has life for us all, and choice is ours to take hold the Truth or the Lie, but the Life is found in God’s Truth NOT the lie, so choose wisely please :)

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Claiming truth and proving truth are two different things. Any asshole can claim something is true, but it takes a little bit of work to back that claim up with actual facts. So instead of merely asserting that anyone who disagrees with you is a liar, you might want to actually look at the facts and possibly consider other alternatives.

          I don’t think you are lying, but I do think you are delusionally mistaken.

          • Jeffrosaffro

            I’m afraid you have put words into my mouth deception, and you’ve called me an asshole. That’s okay.

            So, I have “merely asserted that anyone who disagrees” with me “is a liar”??? When did I do that? once again: give me 1 example please

            I certainly don’t believe that at all. If you see a lie in my words, then please call me out on it. That’s a natural part of growth. We are constantly shifting our perspectives as new knowledge presents itself to us. Is it not that way for you???

            Or do you simply name-call others and put words in their mouths?

            Also, I’ve looked more deeply at the “facts” than most anyone I’ve ever met, and I’ve met people all around this world. I’ve studied so deeply that most who know me would say I over-study or I’m too meticulous with my studies.

            In the military I was immediately put in charge of a large number of people based on nothing more than my supposed level of knowledge

            Now, that being said, I am nonetheless very interested in the possibility that I could be “delusionally mistaken”; however, I will once again ask you to please present to me just 1 example of how you feel like I am deluded.

            and just to be clear. My source has nothing to do with the so-called knowledge you suggest should be studied. I’ve studied extensively, but from all of my so-called knowledge, I have come to see exactly where true Knowledge resides, and that is very different from where you seem to think.

            1 example of my “crap” and “delusion” though please???
            I would like to correct any crap or delusion if it resides within.
            Thanks

            • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

              Always the persecution complex with Christians. I used the word “asshole” but I did not call you an asshole. There is a difference.

              Clearly you aren’t looking “deeply at the facts” if you can’t find any contradictions in the Bible despite the fact if you Google “Bible Contradictions” every result on the first page has lists of them and the second page is probably no different. You didn’t even appear to recognize the story in First Kings that I mentioned. I could go on and on, but I think the point was made and I wasted enough of my valuable time on you.

              So in the military, they put you in commend of other people based on your knowledge of the Bible? I doubt that. But maybe that isn’t what you meant to say. Maybe you are claiming to have absolute knowledge of the entire universe and that was what the military based your command ability on. I don’t get it. Just because you have some knowledge about some subject (whatever it was that the military used to determine your command ability) doesn’t mean you have knowledge on any other subject or even that the military was correct in their assessment of your command ability.

              Further, you asked me to present 1 Biblical contradiction and now you are claiming something different. You are claiming that I haven’t provided 1 example of you being delusionally mistaken. I have in fact provided many examples of Biblical contradictions already. As for your new demand, you claim that the Bible is 100% accurate in the face of the massive amount of evidence I have presented to the contrary. That is delusional and you are mistake.

              • Jeffrosaffro

                I did note the difference, but on that same note, what’s your point???
                You referred to people with a similar opinon as being “assholes”, so
                “always the persecution complex with Christians”? Really?
                I would just say that you referred to people as assholes, but
                you’re saying that applied to everyone else but not me, or
                you’re saying that you don’t have to mean whay you say…
                You can just say what you want, but not actually mean what u say.
                interesting…

                As to your so-called google list of contradictions, I am actually very aware of the exact examples you have given, but you have misunderstood, and this is what I already spoke to you about already. If you are capable of having an intelligent conversation where it seems like you are sincerely seeking actual truth, then I will very easily explain those so-called contradictions; however
                (and this goes back to what I said about an intelligent conversation)
                if I flip the light switch on and it stings your eyes, then who am I to force your hand. God has already given you a choice in what to believe, and though I have shown you the light, you have embraced the darkness. This is your choice, and God has already spoken of this.

                Show me you are sincere in gaining true understanding, and I will take my time to help shed truth on your so-called contradictions, because friend, I have studied exactly the topics and illustrations that you have claimed I knew nothing of. I saw the err in your understanding thereof, but I have chosen to be patient with you as you seem to be stumbling with far more critical foundational elements that will open the door for you to better see the light.

                I didn’t specify knowledge of the Bible
                I NEVER said that at all.
                WHY do you continue to put words in my mouth?
                Are you really this slow at understanding peoples’ words???
                My only remark was a simple rebuttal to your suggestion that I was some sort of “delusional” “asshole” – was only correcting you…again

                I will not waste my time on a fool though, and this goes back to what I’ve already said: You have a choice.

                I don’t really care if you choose darkness; your choice is not mine.

                Interesting you mention your “massive amount of evidence”
                Okay Now I see what you’re saying.
                You actually believe that your “massive amount of evidence” is truth.
                You have actually offered up nothing more than your misconceptions

                I am going to take my time to explain where these are misconceptions. My bad – for some reason I guess I assumed you realized that your foundation was empty and your truth a lie, but now I see the light… actually though, if you look back at all your words, YOU contradict your own self over and over again…yet u hold truth?

                So please allow me to give you yet more knowledge to spit upon my friend, but I’m ending my day soon, and I will prefer to tackle this tomorrow, so until then…

                • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

                  If you want intelligent conversation, then you should have started with that. But you didn’t and I responded in kind. I have written quite extensively on pretty much every topic you mentioned and I pretty sure ever topic you will ever mention, so my advice to you is to first check out my Atheism 101 series and if something isn’t covered there, read some of my other blog posts.

                  Just a tip: When you claim that the Bible is 100% “Truth” no intelligent conversation can be had. Try to see it this way, if someone told you that Star Wars was 100% “Truth” how would you react? With the Bible it is much worse because it is such a shitty book which flies in the face of science, history, and human decency. Plus it is horribly written, boring, and self contradictory.

                  • Jeffrosaffro

                    :)
                    Until tomorrow then, and I will read what you mentioned

      • k8

        Read Daniel.

  • k8

    Why do you assume that Christians don’t read the Bible? It’s true there’s a lot of violence in there, but those are in response to actions that are called “Abominations against God”. I don’t know why it’s such a surprise for you to read that God punishes certain actions really brutally. The Christian God is just after all, and he has to punish evil. That’s why Jesus had to come, so that God wouldn’t have to smite everybody to be just.

  • jcgreen

    dude, im not a religious man but i know christians arent this dim, most of them use that denial and verbal gymnastics well enough to trick even a half-whit, in my opinion youre just ranting becuase you have issues in your family life probably huh

  • Freida Slaves

    I’ll make it easy for all of you. The Bible is about a King, His Kingdom and His Royal Family. It has nothing at all to do with religion. It is about what every person on earth wants, and that is simple — to control his/her own circumstances. That’s what Kings want. We were separated from our kingship when Adom (look it up for the meaning) disobeyed God’s command. Prior to that moment in time which changed our lives, Adom lived in constant communion and fellowship with our Creator, whom we call God. Religion is evil, but that has nothing to do with God. Religion, all religion, is simply man’s misguided attempt to re-connect to our Creator. So Christians are no more hateful, than Muslims, Hindus, Bahai, Athiests, etc. All of the people who believe in their ideologies are religious weather or not you believe it. And, there is absolutely no reason to not read the Bible. The only thing scary in the Bible is reading about man’s inhumanity to man, period. That’s scary. So is this website and most of you on it. God Bless You All.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      We have overthrown all the kings in favor of democracy. :-)

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    Google is your friend. Google “Bible contradictions” and see what you get. I don’t want to appear lazy on this, so I will also tell you that all four gospels are contradictory when it comes to the most important story they are trying to tell… the resurrection story. But that is just an example. There are tons of contradictions. The genealogy of Joseph, Jesus’s birth, when Eve was created, etc.

  • Jeffrosaffro

    Google is our friend?
    I definitely use google, but to suggest that it’s 100% truth is a lie.
    Google is like statistics: one can use it to prove the yeah or the nay.
    I can find google results that prove & google results that disprove.
    So, is google our friend or is it simply a potential tool?
    My hammer can accomplish many things, including nailing your head, but that doesn’t make it right does it… It’s how we use it, and

    As far as contradictions, I would ask the same question friend, because I have found NOT ONE contradiction in what is God’s 100% Holy Truth, and God’s Truth has been proven over and over again through so-called psychology, quantum physics, so-called science, etc… PROVEN, and I have yet to see even a single word of our Creator’s Truth to be false.
    So, yes please… Can you give just 1 example from the “tons” you speak of?

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    *facepalm* And Christians claim that atheists take stuff out of context.

    Same advice: Google “Bible Contradictions.” The whole first page of results is awesome. Just pick one at random and read.

    Here are some from my Easter Quiz article to get you started:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/question-easter-take-the-jesus-rising-quiz

  • Jeffrosaffro

    I see your point, but I’m not sure I would broaden my view based on the supposed experiences of 2 people. I would certainly consider the deeper scenario though…

    “different time”? “period when slavery”? you do realize the enslavement that exists…

    I’m assuming not, and I’m not here to teach that; God will present whatever Truth it is that you require if you would but seek. Slavery is still very much alive my friend, and all one has to do is look to your so-called government (puppet) for their agenda, because they have you enslaved through the media, your so-called money, etc… and you’ll love this, because they even have so-called “christian churches” duped as well. There is so much paganism and misinterpretation of God’s Truth at this point, that it is no wonder so many are turning against these lies… do your research

    point though: I understand what you say, and I understand the rooting behind it.
    There is deception, and there is Truth, but Truth is what God puts in your Heart when you are but open to the Guidance of The Holy Spirit

    Sin is a choice made by man, God hates sin, but he love us and God wants us to have a choice NOT be some clone. What sort of friendship is that if you’re a clone. You love me cuz I programmed it that way. You’re not even a YOU, you’re an IT.

    Look very closely at the rooting behind your words friend.
    And your friends that sought truth or whatever it was they thought they sought,
    A great lie is surrounded by 99% truth, so please don’t be deceived.

    People are people though, and we’re all fallible, so for my self, I choose to embrace what seems to be our Creator’s Holy Truth, and my life’s experiences, studies, etc.. have done nothing but continue to add up to what God says.

    I have yet to see God’s Truth dislodged, so I personally am excited by it, and what you have mistaken and judged as “hideous” is in each and every one of our hearts, sin nature & original sin;
    We learn of our own selves and the importance of the choice God gave us all, and the battle that so many see as dead bodies on a battlefield <— THAT is exactly what is taking place in the minds of humanity as we are presented with and choose our Choice.

    Ignorance is bliss? who says that???
    That's what they want you to believe too, and I see it in so many

    I say nay to the deceptions that be and the illusions that would otherwise derail!
    God's Holy Spirit reveals God's Holy Will if one would but stop to patiently listen.

  • Jeffrosaffro

    Okay well, before I take my time, which I will still do tomorrow for you, but just real quick:

    I’ve not read the Easter Quiz you refer to yet, but
    I can tell you right now that Easter is a pagan tradition, and
    there are countless pagan rituals, traditions, etc that have become intermingled with true Christianity (Christ Follower – NOT church goer)

    Easter is a horrible pagan tradition that I want NO part of, but I do believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ <—although technically there was no "J" in the alphabet of Jesus' era, so Yeshua or Yahshua or Yahushua or I AM or Elohim or etc.., but really what is in your heart? Right – that's my take on it.

    But yes, if you're touting pagan traditions that modern NOT ALL BUT MANY "church-goers" would scream about, then YEAH!@!! I'm totally with you LIES pagan rituals and traditions with Easter being a horrific form of darkness.

    I AM for the LIGHT of TRUTH
    I don't care about the so-called pagan traditions and b.s. that so many "so-called" christians tout as being true Christianity
    I follow God's Holy Perfect Will! Not some "church's"

    and the powers that polluted the church with paganism are the very same powers that control hollywood, world governments, world bank, most all major wars, etc…

    And if YOU do YOUR research you will see that the deceptions run far deeper than you even think, but you're pointing the finger at what THEY want you to point the finger at, so just be aware.

    There's the light switch! Do you see it now?

    Go ahead and use it if you would like to… IF you choose to…

    I will get back to this tomorrow friend, because I am excited to share with you what my take is on these so-called contradictions.

    Just keep in mind that I'm okay with being wrong if I'm wrong, but please instead of mockery and name-calling, just maybe present an intelligent rebuttal instead. You will benefit far more if you do so

    Later

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    I’m glad to see that you are concerned about following the evidence where ever it leads. But like I said before, I have written quite extensively on these matters. I once believed in God too. I learned that it was fiction because I followed the evidence. If you want to do that, I would suggest a short book by Christian historian Karen Armstrong. Even though you are both Christians, she will blow your mind. The book is called “The Bible: A Bibliography.” It isn’t her best known work, but it is the best in my opinion. Check it out.

  • Jeffrosaffro

    I am interested in this Armstrong book you speak of.

    To say something will “blow my mind” is a possibility, but

    that’s what people say of my words’ affects on their minds…

    and I have delved into much, so to blow my mind is a push, but

    I love the sound of that!!! :) I only want the TRUTH!

    For me, my Truth is evidenced through person spiritual experiences that I have had throughout my life. The evidence is in words read, but it is even more evident in what The Lord speaks if one would but listen…

    My martial arts is of a higher nature, because of my relationship with my Creator, and the evidence is found in what some would call “prophesy”, it is found in the energies I experience when healing forces and energies move through me as I perform what some would call therapeutic work, I see God’s Truth evidenced all around me through everything that is. If one can not see it, or if they are deceived in their perception thereof, then that does not negate the absolute Truth that remains…

    I notice that you have a lot of articles. I will take my time to read, and I will take some notes as I consider your words, and I will ultimately respond to your thoughts in as timely a fashion as is reasonable for me, but I have a recording session later today, and you have a lot of articles, so give me a minute.

    I will say this however, and I don’t want to bias my self against your articles, but regardless of our underlying b.s. (belief system),

    You have already disproven your own self repeatedly in the words you’ve chosen to use in our conversation.

    So, if you are stumbling over your words here, and I read a couple articles so far… seems like more stumbling to me (at least what I’ve read so far), then you are stumbling over every arena of your life to some degree. That was my point earlier. You continue to fail to address my points of fact, and this can be deduced by any reasonable human being capable of intelligent thought by simply reading through our conversation.

    I, on the other hand, have NOT stumbled, and you have yet to call me out on anything…. NO name-calling doesn’t count<lol :)

    Name-calling is very different from calling somebody out.

    You have name-called, but you have yet to prove me false, and You have yet to speak consistently in a way that supports your own words. You contradict your own self, and this is the problem with living in a web of deception that is the devil's veil. You ultimately accept lies intermixed with truth like turds in a casserole, and it stinks, doesn't taste very good either, and it's just not healthy.

    Besides all of that, if you offer me a casserole, and here eat and enjoy the "fullness of life" like I do, but there's turds in it, then you have presented to me a lie even if it is mixed into a casserole, and this will not be healthy for me or you.

    You say you live a "full" life. That's awesome if that's true, but the way you contradict your own self in ways you apparently don't see is a testament to the possibility that at best you only say that ignorance is bliss.

    I suggest to you that there is a greater joy than the "ignorance is bliss" mentality, and true joy rests in Truth, and Truth for us comes from our Creator.

    Understand that I'm not in your box you keep calling "christianity"

    I know far more than you think you know

    I know too that I know nothing outside of God's Truth

    I know also that you don't seem to want actual Truth

    and as far as "evidence" is concerned,

    This is where perhaps we have a different pool of resources…

    Perhaps I have more evidence than you have been exposed to?

    idk – just a thought, but

    I have certainly have countless spiritual experiences that attest to the Truth of whom I speak. I know the power of my Creator's Name, and I have personally seen God's Power heal, and I have experienced this same power in my martial arts as well as my music…

    In fact, my music and martial arts would not even be real to me had I never experienced these "evidenences" you've told me to follow.

    I have followed my evidences to my Source.

    I know the Power of Truth – don't care what anyone believes, but Truth is beautiful and it sets a person free.

    The Power of God's Truth in my heart and mind are a testament to the fruits of believing God's Truth and expressing God's Will as God would have you to express. As an open vessel in my Maker's Hands, I am subservient to a Truth that surpasses human understanding, and as we step out in Faith, The Truth reveals it's Holy Light on the darkness we would otherwise embrace….

    As we continue to "empty our cup", our Teacher continues to gladly refill for us to drink our fill, and in so doing, we come to a deeper understanding of knowledge that was previously hidden due to our own personal choice to embrace the very darkness that would make us a lie <— illusion of "fullness" in life or whatever

    You spoke as though you had peoples' best intentions in mind when you said you "once believed in God too. I learned that it was fiction because I followed the evidence."

    So, what are the fruits of this information you would share?
    If I come to believe that God is illusion, then life loses it's meaning.
    Some people have a very deluded understanding of what God says in the Bible, but God also speaks very plainly about this.

    "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." <—sounds like good advice to me

    Regardless of what your own b.s. is (I got my own b.s.), but regardless, is God's Word Not Good Advice?

    You can't take scripture out of it's context and expect to learn any sort of real Truth??? Can you watch 1 minute of a movie and know the whole story. If Johnny pulls a gun on Suzy, and that's all you see, then do you have the whole story?

    We don't even know what happens… does he shoot her?
    Did she provoke this in some way?
    Is he actually protecting her from her own self somehow?
    Is Suzy who she appears to be?
    etc…

    God's Holy Word (Truth) is absolute, and this is evidenced to me throughout a lifetime of experiences (a very full life btw).

    You mentioned you live a full life, and you alluded to my (b.s.) as being so off that I was somehow not really experiencing my life.
    If I die right now from this world as I've physically known it, then I will die a happy man, joyful of spirit and thankful for all the fullness of life that God the Father gave to me < – - – Thank You Lord :D

    Most people seem to think I've experienced more than any they've known, but I would simply suggest that perhaps we all just experience different things. We each have our own unique experiences that tell the same story if we are open to Truth.

  • k8

    No, because infants are innocent. There’s a difference between punishing a criminal for the evil that he’s responsible for and just randomly killing people for no reason.

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    That sounds like a whole lot of No True Scottsman to me. Also, if you have read the entire Bible then the contradictions would be pretty obvious. The nonsense would be pretty obvious. The brutality and bronze aged thinking would be pretty obvious. The fact is that the Bible isn’t a very well written book at all. Be honest about this. Instead of listening to some “bible teacher” spin away the bullshit and contradictions, read it for yourself and see the contradictions for what they are. The Bible is 66 books written by different anonymous authors at different times for different reasons. They simply do not mesh together in any coherent manner and if you actually read the Bible cover-to-cover, that becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly. Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 don’t even match up.

  • Tim Tian

    Basically, the chronically deluded. Whatever bad thing you do, you will go to heaven. As long as you believe in your jesus. That’s a pretty nice god isn’t it. And you can kill, if he tells you to.

  • Diallist

    Thank you for your reply. You’ve proven my point. You don’t understand because you haven’t yet been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. I know, because I once was as you are now; same objections as yours.

    That is why it is so fascinating to me to observe how each person perceives the Bible. They either understand or they don’t. It either appears logical and fully integrated or it doesn’t. It either appears full of contradictions or it doesn’t.

    The deciding factor on how anyone perceives the Bible is their possession (or lack thereof) of the Holy Spirt who illuminates and gives understanding.

    Otherwise, one is left in the dark.

    I don’t know you, but I pray for you that before your life ends, God will gift you with regeneration and you’ll experience the same joy and wonder of God’s word that I did after the lights came on!

    Take care, and again, thanks for your reply.

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    First, most atheists were once religious believers. I was once a religious believer (although never a Christian).

    Second, it isn’t a “perception.” The fact is that we know a good amount of details about how the 66 books of the Bible were collected together. While we don’t know who most of the authors of those books were, we do know that they were written by different people at different times to address different situations. we also know that the Bible has changed over time through re-copying and translations. We don’t even have the original Bible nor do we know if there ever was such a thing. My point is that we know for a fact that the Bible was never written to be one text with a singular narrative.

    Third, there are in fact contradictions with in the Bible both from book to book and within the same books. This is not merely a “perception,” it is a stone cold fact. In my opinion based on that fact and many others, the Bible was not very well written.

    You can pray all you like, but that won’t change the facts. I would recommend to you a few books worth your time. “The Bible: A Biography” by Karen Armstrong and “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Ehrman.

  • Tim Tian
  • Tim Tian

    But Gawd says everyones evil, unless you believe in Jebus.

  • Diallist

    Tim, thank you for your reply. I’m afraid you have been misinformed, most likely by the words and behavior of the 95% whacko “Christians” I mentioned before.

    First, you are partly correct in that regardless of any “bad thing you do”, a real Christian will indeed go to heaven. But that does not mean that a person who claims to be a Christian can live like hell and still expect heaven when they die. They won’t get in. Not because they lose their salvation, but because they never had it in the first place. Genuine salvation cannot be lost.

    Here’s how it works in two parts:
    (1) Christians are freed from the law and cannot be condemned even if they sin (which they will). The Apostle Paul said that all things were lawful to him, but not all things are expedient. So, technically speaking, Christians could do anything they want and get away with it.
    (2) Christians ALSO have the Holy Spirit residing in them who acts as a governor on their behavior. Not so much as to keep Christians from sinning entirely, but such that they will be kept from extreme sins such as murder or rape or such like. In addition to acting a governor on their behavior, the Holy Spirit works incrementally to conform a true Christian to the image of Christ.

    What is the outcome of these two things? A person who is a real Christian will show a life marked with increased Christ likeness over time. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, depending on how the Holy Spirit chooses to work with that individual, but the the change and growth WILL happen. If someone claims to be a Christian and over time shows no change in their lives at all toward becomig Christlike, then that person is no Christian at all.

    As to it being okay to kill if God tells you to, I say this:

    In the Old Testament, God indeed did command his people to kill their enemies. God has the right to do as he will with his creatures.

    In the New Testament, there is no command given to Christians to kill anyone at all during the time between the start of Christianity, and the return of Christ. So anyone who has ever killed someone in the name of Christ is no Christian and is deluded, if not insane. Though God used to speak directly to men, he hasn’t done that since the time of Christ because the only words we have from God now are what are printed in the Bible. If anyone claims that God told him something, or that they “Received a word from the Lord”, rest assured that person is a liar and a lunatic.

    But, there is a time coming when all true Christians will participate in the killing of God’s enemies. That time occurs after all Christians have been removed from the Earth by God (some call that event the Rapture) and are taken to Heaven to be with Christ. They will then return with Christ to the Earth to destroy God’s enemies.

    But before that time, no true Christian will ever kill another person in the name of Christ. If that appears to happen, know this… they are no true Christian.

    Summary: Christian behavior is governed by the Holy Spirit and no Christian will kill until they return with Christ from Heaven.

    I don’t know who you are, but God does, and I’ve just this moment asked God to regenerate you so your eyes and understanding will be opened and you’ll see the beauty of Christ and what he has done for his people.

    Dial

  • Diallist

    Thanks Tim, those verses are no problem at all for those folks who embrace God’s absolute sovereignty and his right to do as he wills with his creatures. There are two groups of people. Those whom God chose to save, and those that are left in their fallen state. The first group has no problem with these verses because they understand who the sovereign God is and what his rights are. The second group will only and ever view these verses as “proof” of what an evil monster God is.

    The Bibile, is designed to appear good to God’s elect and to appear evil to those who are left in their reprobate state.

    Since you see the Bible as evil, guess which group you are in? I’d rather you not be in that group. I don’t know you, but I do know that I don’t want anyone to go to hell, but rather spend an eternity of peace and joy with God.

    I prayed for you Tim that God will regenerate you.

    Take care.

  • Diallist

    Facts alone are not enough. Intent must also be included. There is a story told of a WW2 pilot who shot down an enemy plane over the English Channel. The downed pilot managed to survive the crash and was floating in the water in a life jacket. The pilot who shot him down did a strafing run and shot the defenseless survivor to death. The “facts” alone makes this a cruel and horrific story. The intent of the pilot who did the shooting was to spare the down pilot suffering because the pilot in the air saw a school of sharks moving toward the downed pilot. So he killed him in mercy rather than let him die a painful death.

    As for what I mean by perception, let me give this example. Do you remember the Magic Eye prints that were so popular in the 1990′s? At first glance they appeared to be a jumbled mass of shapes and colors. But those who knew the secret of how to look at them were able to draw out if you will, the 3D images hidden within the prints. Here’s the rub though; it takes stereoscopic vision to see these images. In other words, the successful viewer of the 3D images must have two good eyes. If a person can only see out of one eye, they will never be able to see the hidden image.

    All fallen humans have only one good eye (spiritually speaking) and when presented with the Bible they see the same words on the page as everyone else. However, those people whom God has regenerated now have two good spiritual eyes and can now perceive the hidden truths of the bible.

    As for so called contradictions, I understand exactly what you mean having had the same problem with them as you do before I was regenerated. But since then, I’ve found that the majority of the contradictions were easily resolved with a bit of knowledge about ancient cultures and their societal viewpoints, or what certain words or phrases actually meant to them. The few remaining apparent “contradictions” that I’ve not yet taking time to resolve, I don’t worry about because I know they are not really contradictions at all. Just a lack of knowledge on my part and because I know God’s word is without contradiction (I’ve got TWO good eyes).

    I pray for you that God will regenerate you and give you two good eyes as well. I’d be happy to see how you light up when that happens!

    I have many friends who are atheists. I admire them because I have found most of them to be logical, well reasoned, well educated and able to express valid arguments. But I feel sorry for them too because they rely too much on their reason and intellect and do not understand that reason and intellect alone are insufficient to understanding the Bible or God. The must be regenerated.

    Although you didn’t address this, I throw this in anyway since I’ve been blabbing so much about regeneration:

    Most Christians are well intentioned. They really do have a heartfelt desire to see their friends and loved ones saved. But what the vast majority of Christians have been falsely taught is that it is up to them to keep someone out of hell by constantly arguing, persuading and browbeating their victims by beating them over the head with a fifty pound Bible. What a sad and horrible belief to hold. If only they knew the truth that all they had to do was simply present the Gospel once and then shut up, and leave the results to God. I’d hate to go through life thinking anyone was in hell because I wasn’t persuasive enough! But God has removed that responsibility from me. All I have to do is just tell the truth and God will do what he will with each individual.

    That’s all I’m doing here. Just presenting the truth as I understand it. I’m not trying to convert anyone as that is God’s job. Have you notice that I haven’t tried to get anyone to “accept” Jesus or “make a decision” for Jesus? But that is not the proper approach and is found nowhere in the Bible.

    Okay, I’ll hush up now.

    Thanks again for your reply.

  • Diallist

    My apologies Dangerous, for failing to say thank you for the two book recommendations. I will indeed check out those two books as I am always open to learning more about how folks like yourself think and reason.

    I have an atheist friend whom I asked to read a particular Christian book. He said he would if I would read one of his. I agreed and he gave me a book by Sam Harris. I found the book well written, and I happen to agree with Sam that there is no such thing as free will, and for me free will is the ability to choose otherwise than we did; sometimes called libertarian free will. I disagree with Sam’s definition of faith. He is of the mistaken belief that Christian faith is something that we humans drum up from within ourselves to justify our belief in God without any supporting evidence. That definition of Christian faith is both wrong and rediculous. True faith, the faith needed to believe in Jesus, is a gift from God, one that he only gives to his chosen people. The nature of that faith is that it in itself is evidenece of God. I know that because I am acutely aware that my faith in Christ came from outside myself. It was injected into me by God and is evidence of God.

    Thanks again for the recommendations and I hope to see you in heaven someday.

    Dial

  • Tim Tian

    Yeah, no thank you. I won’t follow laws from a arbitrary being that probably doesn’t exist. I prefer to choose to more ethical option after thinking about it myself thank you. Not by reading a book that has flawed reasoning, or none at all, most of the time.

    Yes, if god converts me to Christianity magically, then I will spend eternity kissing his ass. He hasn’t.

  • Tim Tian

    What an arbitrary god. Thanks for the praying. Maybe I’ll go have some Homoeopathy too.

  • Diallist

    Tim, thanks for the reply. I do indeed hope that God converts you to Christianity, magically or otherwise. My desire for you is to be given the ability to see the absolute beauty of God that I enjoy!

    BTW God does nothing arbitrarily. He has good reason for everything he does. He doesn’t always tell us the reason. Use my case as an example: I am a fallen, sinful worm, just like every other human on this planet. There is nothing in me to recommend me to God. There is no merit or value in me that would cause him to choose me over someone else. But God did choose me for reasons outside of me. I don’t know the reason, but I do know there was a reason.

    I hope God has a reason to convert you as well!

    I believe there are two groups of people on this planet who know with absolute certainty that God exists and that he is the God of the Bible. Those two groups are Christians and Atheists.

    Christians love God and express that love by striving to know more about him.

    Atheists hate God and express that hatred in the saddest way possible by denying his very existence.

    I don’t believe in Atheists because the Bible says that God has written the knowledge of him on every persons heart.

    Deep down inside, you KNOW there is a God. I encourage you to stop resisting him and to run to his son. If you can do that, then it is first evidence that God has saved you.

    Take care Tim, and I hope to meet you in Heaven.

    Dial

    P.S. To everyone who reads this, I thank you all for the posts you have all made. Seeing unbelievers express their opposition to God is encouraging to me and strengthens my faith in God and his Word as it is his word that explains that unregenerate people would speak and behave exactly as you are. Thanks to everyone for validating to me once again the veracity of God’s Holy Word.

  • Tim Tian

    No, you’re confusing Atheists with Antitheists.

    Just by the way, how much of the bible do you believe in literally?

  • Diallist

    Hi Tim, I hope you are doing well!

    No, I’m not confused. I am quite aware of the definitional difference betwenn atheist and antitheist. But I look at them as the same because of their commonality in rejecting God or the concept of God. Both atheists and antitheist are considered enemies of God, so in that sense there is no difference.

    You question is not clear. It appears to be two questions. I believe all of the bible to be true. But as for which parts I think are literal, I follow the general rule of assuming the text is literal unless immediate context or other parts of scripture would lead me to think otherwise. Jesus said he was a door, but I don’t believe he was a wooden rectangle with hinges and a doorknob. The creature with four faces hovering over the throne of God appears to be literal as it was described the same way by two different people. (one prophet and one apostle) centuries apart.

    I suspect your intention here is to lead me into a debate. That would be a complete waste of time. Being regenerated by God, and knowing the truth as the result of that, it is impossible for any man to convince me I am wrong. On the other hand, it would be impossible for me, or anyone, to convince you to believe, no matter how detailed, logical and compelling my arguments, if at the the same time God changed your heart.

    To say it again more briefly:
    I cannot stop believing because it was God who made me believe.
    You cannot believe because God has not caused you to believe.

    But, you’re not dead yet, so I pray that God will regenerate you before you die.

    I’ll close with this, and then I think I’m done here:

    I read what atheists (and antitheists) have to say because I don’t want to be ignorant of their opinions and viewpoints, even if I do disagree with them.

    I expect them to do the same in regards to Christianity and the Bible. This thread was started on the topic of atheists having read the Bible. I think everyone should read Bible, if for no other reason that to be better educated about what must be acknowledged as a book that has had tremendous effect on world history.

    So, Tim, if you haven’t already done so, I suggest you read it through at least once.

    Also, the Bible says that God has given some men to us as teachers. In our current time, the Christian church has fallen into apostasy and now believes in things not found in the Bible. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good Bible teacher. Fortunately I can recommend Jim McClarty of http://www.salvationbygrace.org whole heartedly as a pure Biblesist. I encourage you, even if just for educational purposes, to go to the website, click on the “Listen” link and listen to the series on the Gospel of John. It’s around sixty hours of clear, logical teaching that is hard to find elsewhere. So go ahead and listen… unless of course you’re afraid God might use Pastor Jim’s teaching to “magically” convert you!

    For anyone reading this, I think you all will find Pastor Jim to be decidedly different from nearly every other teacher online. He is arrogant, cynical and isn’t afraid to speak the truth. He’s also a kindhearted and gently man. But he will not compromise the truth for anyone for any reason.

    Anyway, Tim, thanks for giving me the opportunity to chat with you. And if you never believe, I hope you have a happy and productive life in this world.

    Dial

  • Tim Tian

    Sorry, I believe I have failed to mention I am not an atheist.

  • Diallist

    HI Tim, I hope you’re having a great week! :-)
    Thanks for the clarification. Just out of curiosity, how do you classify yourself?